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Trumpeter JU-87 corrected and just finished in time for Telford

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I'll post some photos tomorrow AM since photobucket is down for maintenance right now. In the meantime, there are some in my review here.


Doug

Edited by DougN

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Guest KingK_series

Really? You think the worst thing about the Trumpeter kit is a missing "gap" behind the engine cowls? Not the fact that the entire nose assembly is undersized by 2mm to 3mm (actual), the spinner is undersized and misshapen, the prop blades are 6.1mm too short, the canopies have interior framing molded on the outside and of course, the spats that are not shaped properly in any direction (deepening with milliput will not fix it)?

 

And you think the aforementioned errors are comparable to some supposed errors with the Tamiya Spifire series?

 

Doug

 

 

 

Well on the subject of the Tamiya - I spent most of yesterday pouring over a 1942 spitfire and c wing. The Tamiya wheel well is very wrong, as are the radiator ducts, the Tamiya fusilage has a very exaggerated shape in the fusilage 'waisting' behind the fixed rear canopy and the rear canopy itself.

 

As for drawings - I learn't to be very cautious about them when making a bf 109.

Edited by KingK_series

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Guest KingK_series

I'll post some photos tomorrow AM since photobucket is down for maintenance right now. In the meantime, there are some in my review here.

 

 

Doug

 

 

For instance the overall length I have for a JU87B2 is 11.1m

 

Without getting into phoitographic/scan enlargements which can be very unreliable, that length corresponds to 15.4cm in 1/72 scale

 

the MMP drawing that you have scaled from measures 15.5mm on the page in 1/72 scale

 

and the drawings in the Creek book are 15.55mm long

 

- so the drawings look overscale, and certainly not accurate before you start scaling up....

 

 

 

on the cowl rad shape, you are completely right... there is lots of work to do, but a serious study of the Creek, MMP books but most importantly of the Chicago 87 will show you how many variations in shape there were..... and it is clear that this came from different presses in the different factories, the sole existing B in Chicago has a very different shape to the intake drawing you have scaled up in your review.

 

 

That is why if you really want to understand these issues, let alone just make accurate models, considerable research is necessary I feel, and most importantly visting existing aircraft.

 

 

simon

Edited by KingK_series

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As promised, here are some photos of the Trumpy nose that illustrate the smallness issue:

 

Nose aligned at the firewall on the plans from the MMP book:

 

DSCN1576a.jpg

 

Here are some photos from the accurate replacement spinner prop look like on the kit nose listed above.

 

Dimensions used to create the replacement parts are shown on the instructions:

 

3c2cf4e43c42fc0681edef0e7c415679f_zps722

 

These photos nicely shows how the nose is too "pointy":

 

4b1699b38f08d8f23dd296834486d4476_zps155

 

 

 

244d576d2ba417e6a15ea19da6e0f987e_zpsa1b

 

 

 

Hope this helps illustrate the problems being discussed.

 

Doug

Edited by DougN

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Guest KingK_series

As promised, here are some photos of the Trumpy nose that illustrate the smallness issue:

 

Nose aligned at the firewall on the plans from the MMP book:

 

DSCN1576a.jpg

 

Here are some photos from the accurate replacement spinner prop look like on the kit nose listed above.

 

Dimensions used to create the replacement parts are shown on the instructions:

 

3c2cf4e43c42fc0681edef0e7c415679f_zps722

 

These photos nicely shows how the nose is too "pointy":

 

4b1699b38f08d8f23dd296834486d4476_zps155

 

 

 

244d576d2ba417e6a15ea19da6e0f987e_zpsa1b

 

 

 

Hope this helps illustrate the problems being discussed.

 

Doug

 

 

now you see that's interesting, because this resin spinner is given as with a length of 19.5mm, add o.45mm for a gap beteween fusilage and spinner ie 2cm, add 2cmto a trumpeter fusilage and rudder of 30.15+2.5 = 32.65 +2 =34.65 which in 1/32 is 0.53mm too short - and the exact gap that I would stand the cowl off the fusilage top give the vent gap that I have spoken of, in other words the Trumpeter fusilage is reasonably accurate, and the kit spinner is 1.65 instead of 1.95mm long.

 

This kit is no worse than most kits and a reasonable start for a well researched build.

 

It also lends weight to the feeling that the MMP drawing as you show it - is too long?

Edited by KingK_series

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KingK, the problem with your theory(ies) is that the rest of the Trumpeter kit exactly matches the MMP plans. So if they are wrong as you claim, then the rest of the kit is also wrong. So, using your theory(ies), you would need to make the cowl longer and the fuselage, wings, etc. shorter. The photos I posted also show that the nose it too pointy, regardless of whether your theory(ies) on the accuracy of the plans is correct since an accurately sized spinner back plate highlights this. You should also note that I aligned the part on the nose side of the "gap" you are on about, so that part is taken out of the equation.


The fact that the nose is too small and pointy is visually evident when comparing the built kit to any photo (or actual airframe) of the real aircraft. This is what caused me to look at this area, and the photos above confirm it. If it was just a matter of adding a mm or two of material to make it longer, I would not even be worried about it. However, to correct the pointyness of the nose will clearly require major effort.

 

I have ordered the corrected spinner/prop and will do some comparisons with it on the 21C and Revell kit noses as well once it arrives and post my results. The 21C nose, while also a bit small, does have a better shape to the radiator bottom so it might be a better start for correction. It is also does not seem quite as "pointy" as the Trumpeter kit, however, we'll see for sure once I get the new spinner to make an informed comparison. The Revell nose may also be an option, as it seems to align better with the plans when placed all the way forward, and it might be a case of just needing to add 2mm to 3mm to the rear to get it to look right. Again, once I get the new parts, I plan to do an comparison article on all 3 Ju87B kits.

 

Doug

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nice pics Doug - says it all really: shape is not perfect but about ok, just someone fired the shrink ray at it! :doh:

 

anyway, i posted this in the thread on the main LSP forum, but will repeat it here for your reference:

 

 

Derek looks like he may run with a project to do the easy add-on stuff:

- spats

- spat propellers

- wheels

- bomb cradle (will probably come with a 250 bomb)

- Trop filter

 

http://sparforums.com/ipb/index.php?/topic/2930-trumpeter-132-ju87-what-aftermarket-would-you-like-open-letter-to-manufacturers/

 

i will be donating (lending hopefully!) my kit for him to have some plastic in his hands, and trying to post a series of useful reference pics in the above thread; when my Kagero Monograph IV arrives - and if it does indeed have some plans (vol III is utterly devoid of them and basically pretty useless in this regard) - if will scan them and post them to him

of course feel free if you already have plans etc to do the honours!

 

PS please don't ask about the A series - i am not giving him my kit to make upgrades for this variant ;)

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Guest KingK_series

KingK, the problem with your theory(ies) is that the rest of the Trumpeter kit exactly matches the MMP plans. So if they are wrong as you claim, then the rest of the kit is also wrong. So, using your theory(ies), you would need to make the cowl longer and the fuselage, wings, etc. shorter. The photos I posted also show that the nose it too pointy, regardless of whether your theory(ies) on the accuracy of the plans is correct since an accurately sized spinner back plate highlights this. You should also note that I aligned the part on the nose side of the "gap" you are on about, so that part is taken out of the equation.

 

The fact that the nose is too small and pointy is visually evident when comparing the built kit to any photo (or actual airframe) of the real aircraft. This is what caused me to look at this area, and the photos above confirm it. If it was just a matter of adding a mm or two of material to make it longer, I would not even be worried about it. However, to correct the pointyness of the nose will clearly require major effort.

 

I have ordered the corrected spinner/prop and will do some comparisons with it on the 21C and Revell kit noses as well once it arrives and post my results. The 21C nose, while also a bit small, does have a better shape to the radiator bottom so it might be a better start for correction. It is also does not seem quite as "pointy" as the Trumpeter kit, however, we'll see for sure once I get the new spinner to make an informed comparison. The Revell nose may also be an option, as it seems to align better with the plans when placed all the way forward, and it might be a case of just needing to add 2mm to 3mm to the rear to get it to look right. Again, once I get the new parts, I plan to do an comparison article on all 3 Ju87B kits.

 

Doug

 

 

No you misunderstand me - I totally agree the cowl is incorrect, but it makes a very attractive out of the box kit as Tigger has shown in his super build in this thread with only very minor mods

 

 

however for anyone who wants to be accurate it needs work - like most kits - including the Tamiya spitfire which needs considerable reworking of the fusilage shape behind the cockipt to be accurate - like an Eduard 109.....

 

I am doing some bf109Ds at the moment from the Allycat Eduard combination, the Eduard like the Trumpy 87 is a great starting point, the Allycat is so inaccurate I just binned it and it's all scratch built forward of the wing..... but some are perfectly happy with the ED/Allycat kits.

 

- penty of people will build Tamiya Spits and Eduard 109s without a thought of modding them

 

I have 2 trumpeter 87s - they will get comprehensively reworked in the builds - fusilage ahead of the fin, slats, cockpit will get junked, spinners props, spats, and as you say engine cowl and rad, the shape of the cowl behind the spinner into the rad housing is a very sophisticated shape - it will be a lot of fun doing that, the immense differences in the rad housing between a B1 and B2...... fun fun fun..... the delicate shape of the rad intake gills, [which are just as obviously wrong as the airscrew or the cowl] - all of it, .......

 

but with all due respect I think Tiggers model with the minor mods to spats and chin make a really attractive build - congratulations to him.

 

each to his own......

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Guest KingK_series

KingK, the problem with your theory(ies) is that the rest of the Trumpeter kit exactly matches the MMP plans. So if they are wrong as you claim, then the rest of the kit is also wrong. So, using your theory(ies), you would need to make the cowl longer and the fuselage, wings, etc. shorter. The photos I posted also show that the nose it too pointy, regardless of whether your theory(ies) on the accuracy of the plans is correct since an accurately sized spinner back plate highlights this. You should also note that I aligned the part on the nose side of the "gap" you are on about, so that part is taken out of the equation.

 

The fact that the nose is too small and pointy is visually evident when comparing the built kit to any photo (or actual airframe) of the real aircraft. This is what caused me to look at this area, and the photos above confirm it. If it was just a matter of adding a mm or two of material to make it longer, I would not even be worried about it. However, to correct the pointyness of the nose will clearly require major effort.

 

Doug

 

 

The Kagero drawings [for what they are worth] have the cowl 42mm long front to join in front of the cockpit in 1/48, thats 63mm multipied up to 1/32

 

the Trumpeter cowls at that point are...... 63mm long

 

the MMP drawing is 28mm long measured with accurate digital verniers multipy by 2.25 to generate 1/32 and you have 63.mm

 

 

...........................there you go the Trumpeter agrees with the Kagero and both agree with the MMP, mathematically scaled

Edited by KingK_series

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John,

 

Congratulations on your award winning Stuka and your expected stunning forthcoming feature in MAI - Well done :clap2:

 

Derek

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Guest KingK_series

John,

 

Congratulations on your award winning Stuka and your expected stunning forthcoming feature in MAI - Well done :clap2:

 

Derek

 

 

I second that, a very very good looking build, thankyou for sharing it.

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For those that don't know the issue is now out that feature has John's Ju87... I have downloaded it this morning and had a quick read of it into work.

Edited by moeggo

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