J7W Shinden Cockpit Colors?

[D Bellis]

Looking over various images of the NASM J7W1 in storage at the Gerber facility, the color of the cockpit appears to be a blue-gray:

 

That's not the only image that shows the blue-gray, but it does show the green canopy frames.

 

Anyone have any input on what color of enamel paint to use that's close? I'm leaning toward Medium Gray FS 35237 which has a slight blue tint to it, possibly with some blue and/or green mixed in.

 

Any input appreciated.

D

[LSP_Mike]

D, that sure looks like the famed "metallic blue" protective finish! I've got MM 2119 Jap interior metallic, and Xtra color X355 Jap WWII int.blue. Any real way of knowing where the canopy came from? sub-contractor, replacement, or repaint? Seems factory, maybe a sub?

[LSP_Kevin]

Yeah, I'm going with a shade of aotake too. I'm no expert, but my understanding is that it varied in colour a great deal, and tended to evolve to green when exposed to UV light. Could be completely wrong of course!

 

Kev

[D Bellis]

D, that sure looks like the famed "metallic blue" protective finish! I've got MM 2119 Jap interior metallic, and Xtra color X355 Jap WWII int.blue.

Yeah, I'm going with a shade of aotake too.

Very interesting. Thanks for the input! Aotake never entered my mind because it was very rarely used as a cockpit finish due to the soft nature of that protective coating (aotake often being described as a waxy substance similar to cosmoline). Aotake is also often described as semi-transparent.

 

Here's another image of the lower 'pit down by the rudder pedals:

That sure could be actual aotake. But, that isn't the same aotake that is found in most paint ranges. The MM "Japanese Interior Metalic Blue" looks nothing like the color on the interior of that Shinden.

 

Which brings me back to my original dilemma: what color of paint should I use to replicate it? Maybe a mix of MM "Japanese Interior Metalic Blue" and Medium Gray FS 35237?

 

A few more shots:

 

The individual parts seemingly painted with Yellow Zinc Chromate are also interesting. Not sure if I want to go with that detail or not. The YZC instrument hood would look WAY out of place to my eye...

 

Any real way of knowing where the canopy came from? sub-contractor, replacement, or repaint? Seems factory, maybe a sub?

Hard to say for sure, but any of those would be viable possibilites.

 

D

Edited November 12, 2011 by D Bellis

[LSP_Mike]

D, IIRC, Mikesh called Aotake a protective finish, which I interpreted as a zinc-chromate like finish. the blues sure look like tight sprayed paint.

[Juggernut]

To quote Mikesh regarding the coloring of the Shinden cockpit:

 

 

"Several colors are dominant in this cockpit. The basic interior is a thin wash of green paint (not aotake) that is very deteriorated and not represented well with flash photography. The aluminum backing causes this to become more blue than when making comparisons with color paint samples. A close representative of this interior color is N.33.

 

For the purpose of documenting this interior color as a reference to measure against in the future, a Colorimeter Munsell reading of 9.3Y 5.9/5.6 was obtained just below the throttle quadrant area. The closest Munsell chip is 10Y 6/6, which is decidedly too light when compared to this color visually. This is the result of the light reflecting off the aluminum through the thin paint.

 

The armor plate behind the seat is a dominant part of this cockpit and its color is visually close to the same color as is on the seat and the general interior. This differs by being a heavier coating of paint which produced a Colorimeter Munsell reading of 9.6GY 3.8/1.4. This appears to be more accurate. The closest Munsell color chip, 10GY 4/2, is a reasonable visual comparison to the actual color. Federal Standard 595B 34082 and N.33 are close but both should have a little less yellow. A blend betwen N.33 and Pantone 5615C is perhaps the best representation for this seat.

 

It is unusual but a yellow very much like American zinc chromate is found on parts of this aircraft interior. The answer may be that this was a test aircraft and subject to frequent changes.

 

The wooden instrument panel is semi-gloss black."

 

 

Mikesh, Robert C. (2000). Japanese Aircraft Interiors 1940-1945. Monogram Aviation Publications. Sturbridge, Ma. USA (p. 179)

[D Bellis]

Federal Standard 595B 34082 and N.33 are close but both should have a little less yellow.

Awesome! Thanks, Tim! It shall be MM Medium Green F.S.34082 with a little bit of blue (probably USN Intermediate Blue/Gray) added to it in order to tone down the yellow hue.

 

It is unusual but a yellow very much like American zinc chromate is found on parts of this aircraft interior. The answer may be that this was a test aircraft and subject to frequent changes.

Unusual, indeed, but his answer to that is highly plausable. I'll leave the YZC out of mine.

 

The wooden instrument panel is semi-gloss black.

And so it shall be, as well as will the instrument panel hood.

 

Perfect! Thanks again, fellas! That's exactly what I needed to know.

D

 

PS

I forgot to mention in my opening post that ZM recommends a color which cross references (unfortunately through several paint ranges) to MM RAF Interior Green. That is definitely not the color that they had used to paint the cockpit of the model photographed for the instruction manual.

Edited November 12, 2011 by D Bellis

[DougN]

Are you doing the prototype, or are you doing what would have been a production airframe? If prototype, all these odd colors are probably appropriate, but if a production airframe, then I would think the interior colors would have been standardized to the manufacturer's interior green color and black - like all other production airframes

 

Doug

[D Bellis]

Doug,

You're correct. I'm doing the J7W2 with the Ne-20 kai jet engine conversion from ZM for my first build of this kit. However, I intend to build my other kit as a "production" J7W1 version at some point, and would like to keep the coloring between the two somewhat linear.

 

It is a shame that the J7W2 would likely have had shorter landing gear, larger air intakes and other modifications not represented by the rather simple ZM engine-only "conversion". But, it'll still be a fun build with the final scheme wide open for artistic license.

 

D

[LSP_Mike]

Maybe I'll pull mine down and make these notes on the destructions.

[eaglekeeper]

This Could be plausible reason for the color variations is that the colors were applied when evaluated by the military after the war. Could also explain the YZC application as a protective measure against corrosion by US evaluation personnel or museum staff. Just my 2 cents worth......

[Minnesota]

Hi, I did read awhile back it was discribed as close to FS 34227, looks close to that bottom picture.

http://www.testors.com/product/0/4739/_/Pale_Green__FS34227_Acryl_%28F%29-_12_oz._Bottle

The other pictures shown seem to have that blue-green aotake finish.

[Juggernut]

Hi, I did read awhile back it was discribed as close to FS 34227, looks close to that bottom picture.

http://www.testors.c...-_12_oz._Bottle

The other pictures shown seem to have that blue-green aotake finish.

 

Robert Mikesh, former Senior Curator of the Air and Space Museum emphatically stated after thorough examination of the aircraft that the color in the cockpit was not aotake but a thin application of green paint. See my post above with his direct observations on the cockpit coloring and the reference from which it came.

[D Bellis]

Robert Mikesh, former Senior Curator of the Air and Space Museum emphatically stated after thorough examination of the aircraft that the color in the cockpit was not aotake but a thin application of green paint.

Tim,

The color Minnesota references is a shade of green, albeit a very light shade.

 

Minnesota,

Thanks for the input! I carefully considered several shades of greens for this cockpit, including that color. However, my conclusion was that it was too light and too yellow given the informtion at hand. In the end, I used a mix of 60% Dark Green FS 34079 and 40% ANA Blue Gray (MM enamels) for this cockpit. It looked great in the bottle, but darkened up a lot more than I had hoped when it dried. Oh well. It looks ok to me...

 

D