Mineral Spirits too hot for Future?

[Expat Tomcat]

Is mineral spirits ( used to thin an oil wash) too "hot" to use over Future? I'm using Gamsol , a product made by Gamblin art supply. It's 100% mineral spirits, the odorless variety. I used it to thin an oil wash and it spread and stained my paint job with a kind of purple stain. Probably a little heavy with the MS on the Q-tip wiping it off. But I could swear I saw somewhere that MS was ok to use for an oil wash with Future as a barrier coat.

 

If I strip the Future off with windex will it strip off the wash too so I can start over from the base paint coat? I'm really hoping I haven't just wasted two weeks worth of work (or more).

[Gene]

No one wanted to advise Columbus where he might wind up if he encountered a huricane and perhaps you are also exploring new ground. However, if your MS wash has 'violated' the Future barrier, the amonia/windex will probably not lift that, but anything sitting ontop of the remaining Future will most likely be lost.

 

One thing I have noticed about the acrylic/water based Future, it might appear dry on the surface, but still requires some time to thoroughly dry. If it is partially wet, later applications of 'art' will perform in variable fashion. I often run off experimenting on my anticipated finish work, but have to discipline myself to work samples of new techniques before jumping off - a bit of 20/20 hindsight, sorry.

 

Hope you can recover most of what you have accomplished.

[JamesHatch]

I use lab quality mineral spirits to remove excess wash from over a coat of cured Klear.

 

I also leave my Klear to cure for a couple of days before attempting to wash and remove excess. Are you letting it cure long enough first?

[Expat Tomcat]

The Future coats had at least 48 hours each to dry. I used 2-3 medium coats, made sure all the edges of gear/bay doors were coated well. I am going to try again this evening to get the wash off, going to go lighter with the MS on the Q-tip see if that helps. I think with my remaining landing gear and avionics bays, I'm going to use Testors Gloss Coat and a waterbased wash. I have too much time invested to risk having to start over. There is a couple of months work in total, and it's quite possible the paint on one of them is ruined. Any one know how to strip paint off of resin? And will ammonia based cleaners strip off my Zip pen ink?

[Out2gtcha]

Personally for me, I think Future works awesome; for canopies and instrument dials ONLY.

 

I love it for those two things...........but for anything else, especially a gloss coat for an aircraft or weathering base is just not worth it. The Future is too susceptible to damage early, takes WAY too long to dry, is very easily damaged by other weathering medium and easily runs and drips if put on even a little thick.

 

Not to mention is a detail eater as it goes on SO thick and atomizes the same way.

 

RANT OVER.

 

Id say yes, just let it dry for days and days OR just got out and get yourself some Model Master Lacquer clear coats.

They come in flat, semi-gloss, and gloss. They almost NEVER run, go on silky smooth, dont EVER react to things like Miniral spirits and the best part? They atomize SO fine in your air brush that you can put on just a coat or 2 (which by the way dries in LITERALLY a matter of minutes and you can shoot the next coat or OVER coat) and it fills NO detail.

 

Even though they sound scary with "lacquer" in the title, these MM Lacquer clears amazingly enough can even be sprayed over acrylic, but they are designed to go over enamel.

 

I have found they dry SO fast and thin, and work SO well in fact , that you can shoot them over almost ANY paint. Good enough that ever single modeling friend I have turned these clears on to, like myself, will not use anything else ever again.

 

Brian

[automaton]

Personally for me, I think Future works awesome; for canopies and instrument dials ONLY.

 

I love it for those two things...........but for anything else, especially a gloss coat for an aircraft or weathering base is just not worth it. The Future is too susceptible to damage early, takes WAY too long to dry, is very easily damaged by other weathering medium and easily runs and drips if put on even a little thick.

 

Not to mention is a detail eater as it goes on SO thick and atomizes the same way.

 

RANT OVER.

 

Id say yes, just let it dry for days and days OR just got out and get yourself some Model Master Lacquer clear coats.

They come in flat, semi-gloss, and gloss. They almost NEVER run, go on silky smooth, dont EVER react to things like Miniral spirits and the best part? They atomize SO fine in your air brush that you can put on just a coat or 2 (which by the way dries in LITERALLY a matter of minutes and you can shoot the next coat or OVER coat) and it fills NO detail.

 

Even though they sound scary with "lacquer" in the title, these MM Lacquer clears amazingly enough can even be sprayed over acrylic, but they are designed to go over enamel.

 

I have found they dry SO fast and thin, and work SO well in fact , that you can shoot them over almost ANY paint. Good enough that ever single modeling friend I have turned these clears on to, like myself, will not use anything else ever again.

 

Brian

 

I agree 100% with everything Brian said except that I use Testors Metalizer Sealer instead of the gloss lacquer (and I'd hazard to guess that it's pretty much the same thing).

 

Regards;

 

Automaton

[nmayhew]

Personally for me, I think Future works awesome; for canopies and instrument dials ONLY.

 

I love it for those two things...........but for anything else, especially a gloss coat for an aircraft or weathering base is just not worth it. The Future is too susceptible to damage early, takes WAY too long to dry, is very easily damaged by other weathering medium and easily runs and drips if put on even a little thick.

 

Not to mention is a detail eater as it goes on SO thick and atomizes the same way.

 

RANT OVER.

 

Id say yes, just let it dry for days and days OR just got out and get yourself some Model Master Lacquer clear coats.

They come in flat, semi-gloss, and gloss. They almost NEVER run, go on silky smooth, dont EVER react to things like Miniral spirits and the best part? They atomize SO fine in your air brush that you can put on just a coat or 2 (which by the way dries in LITERALLY a matter of minutes and you can shoot the next coat or OVER coat) and it fills NO detail.

 

Even though they sound scary with "lacquer" in the title, these MM Lacquer clears amazingly enough can even be sprayed over acrylic, but they are designed to go over enamel.

 

I have found they dry SO fast and thin, and work SO well in fact , that you can shoot them over almost ANY paint. Good enough that ever single modeling friend I have turned these clears on to, like myself, will not use anything else ever again.

 

Brian

 

i too have heard lots of good stuff about MM lacquer coats but have been put off by tales of it eating decals because it is too hot

 

care to comment?

 

i now use gunze rattle can super clear but only as base coat - top coat pre wash is alclad clear which sprays on really nice

 

is your MM rattle can or is it airbrushed, and if so, what is it thinned with?

 

cheers

 

Nick

[Out2gtcha]

I agree 100% with everything Brian said except that I use Testors Metalizer Sealer instead of the gloss lacquer (and I'd hazard to guess that it's pretty much the same thing).

 

Regards;

 

Automaton

 

Actually, (again this is just my experience) although I love the way the Testors metalizer sealer goes down (also very fine atomizing) I have found that if you dont prep your surface 100% correct and/or if you put it on too thin, it can sometimes chip off or get edges pulled up masking tape. Its also lovely stuff but quite bit more brittle in the end than the MM lacquer stuff.

 

The lacquer system stuff is A-typical for most lacquer stuff in that it is very cool and doesn't react to much, but it is VERY typical of lacquer stuff, in that it does grip well to the surface, and stays fairly flexible and bombproof.

 

i too have heard lots of good stuff about MM lacquer coats but have been put off by tales of it eating decals because it is too hot

 

care to comment?

 

In my experience Nick, I have used anywhere from a light misting in between decals and final coats to a 4 or 5 (literally) finishing coats. The stuff goes on SUPER fine, and dries........well on the verge of being unbelievably fast.

 

Having said that, up to this point I have used the stuff over everything from model master enamels to Tamiya acrylics and over Trumpy decals, Hasegawa decals, Zotz, and Fisher M&P.

I cannot obviously speak for any of the other decal manufacturers as I have not used the stuff over theirs but so far the stuff appears to really not very hot at all.

 

I think youll find it goes on so fine and dries so fast, if you put it on by low pressure airbrush, the stuff goes on in such light coats that there really isnt any time to react, as the drying time is nil.

 

Bottom line, no, Ive never had any decals react to it yet.

 

i now use gunze rattle can super clear but only as base coat - top coat pre wash is alclad clear which sprays on really nice

 

is your MM rattle can or is it airbrushed, and if so, what is it thinned with?

 

 

Im not 100% sure on availability of that one Nick, as I usually only use them in the airbrush. However, I have used the MM laquer ultra gloss many times out of the rattle can, and the volume of material is WAY greater, but the stuff STILL behaves like a dream.

 

I think one of the things that makes the stuff so much less hot than other stuff, especially lacquer stuff, is the fact that if you shoot out of any airbrush, you thin them with the special ModelMaster Laquer "system" thinners..............those thinners are significantly cooler than any other lacquer thinners Ive ever used.

 

I think our own PhilB can attest to the stuff as well......quite brilliant.

 

HTH,

Brian

[PhilB]

I think our own PhilB can attest to the stuff as well......quite brilliant.

Are you saying I'm quite brilliant or the MM Laquer?

 

Yes I do second what Brian has said.

I have used MM clear laquers for my last 3 builds and prior to that I never used Klear on anything apart from glassware.

I cannot understand why in the 21st century we carefully rescribe lines and add detail. We then carefully paint and decal

making sure we don't lose any detail and then we cover the thing in a coat of gloopy floor polish (several coats in some cases)

 

In the past I have polished the paint to a slight shine for decals to prevent silvering.

I still do the same in some cases or pop on a couple of coats of MM gloss through the airbrush diluted 50/50 with the MM thinners.

Its dry in a couple of minutes and I only coat where the decals are going.

I never understand why people coat the whole model with klear only to put decals in a couple of places???

 

I get my MM stuff in the UK from Graham at Relish Models who is a really top bloke.

 

My advice? Put the klear back in the kitchen cupboard and only use it for glassware.

Only prep your model for decals where they are going to go either by polishing the paint or some clear gloss laquer.

Do not be afraid, there is life after Klear/Future!

 

Phil

[nmayhew]

 

I get my MM stuff in the UK from Graham at Relish Models who is a really top bloke.

 

 

Phil

 

ok i've looked but not sure what to get ,,, can you give me a link to the exact stuff you use please?

 

cheers

 

Nick

[scvrobeson]

See, I don't understand the controversy on here. I've been using Future exclusively for both clear parts and for gloss coats, and have never had a problem. I found if you spray it on in light, mist coats, it doesn't fill in any detail, doesn't run, and dries almost instantly. I've tried the other stuff, and can't quite get it to ever work as well. Just my opinion, and I've never had mineral spirits eat through the Future. Anyone interested could reference my Ju88 build to see what I'm talking about. Glossed with Future, washed with mineral spirits and oil paint, and not a single problem.

 

My link

 

Here's the Ju88 thread for anyone interested.

Edited March 2, 2011 by scvrobeson

[PhilB]

ok i've looked but not sure what to get ,,, can you give me a link to the exact stuff you use please?

Nick,

Its at the bottom of his list of MM paints under "varnishes and Thinners" here: http://www.relishmodels.co.uk/paints-and-washes/model-master-paints-1/varnishes-and-thinners-1.html

As usual Sod's law says he is out of stock at the moment but if you contact him he will let you know when the next delivery is.

 

See, I don't understand the controversy on here. I've been using Future exclusively for both clear parts and for gloss coats, and have never had a problem.

 

Well if you are happy then carry on. Just suggesting an alternative.

 

Phil

Edited March 2, 2011 by PhilB

[Out2gtcha]

I think what basically is being said here is that Future is harder to work with.

As Phil said, if it works for you, then bully, but generally speaking 8 times out of 10 Future is more difficult to work with for most anyone. Im sure if you tried it you would find the properties to be well beyond that of Future for purposes of clear coat. For canopies and IP dials however nothing beats Future.

 

Just because of its nature, it is going to fill detail more readily than the MM clears.

As you pointed out it just takes a lighter hand with Future. If you had someone who was not as light handed equally shooting the MM clears and Future, the MM clears would atomize finer each and every time, and tend to clog detail much less, just by the physical properties of it.

But again this is just opinion here, and as Phil said if it works for you than good on ya.

 

The mineral spirits "eating through" the Future is a whole other matter. It really has/is never been about MS "eating" the future, more likely what is happening is another drawback to Future for clear coats: Drying time. If you put future on IP dials and let it dry but not all the WAY dry, you are possibly going to end up with clouded future...............same goes if you use certain types of masking tape on Future...........AKA "Pactra" type plastic masking tape. It will etch itself into the future if not totally 100% cured.

Future will definitely get hazed, or crazed by Miniral spirits if it is not properly cured. Id say let it dry for a full week and return to it and see if the MS touches it then.

 

 

 

Brian

[nmayhew]

Nick,

Its at the bottom of his list of MM paints under "varnishes and Thinners" here: http://www.relishmod...thinners-1.html

As usual Sod's law says he is out of stock at the moment but if you contact him he will let you know when the next delivery is.

 

 

 

Well if you are happy then carry on. Just suggesting an alternative.

 

Phil

 

ok thanks but what i am unclear about is that i thought we are talking about LACQUER varnish?

the link has only ENAMEL varnish

 

i would not use any enamel varnish as my gloss coat because i use, amongst other things, MiG washes, which are enamel based, and will simply melt the varnish if its made of the same stuff no?

 

the metalizer may be a different matter?

 

am i missing something?

[Out2gtcha]

ok thanks but what i am unclear about is that i thought we are talking about LACQUER varnish?

the link has only ENAMEL varnish

 

i would not use any enamel varnish as my gloss coat because i use, amongst other things, MiG washes, which are enamel based, and will simply melt the varnish if its made of the same stuff no?

 

the metalizer may be a different matter?

 

am i missing something?

 

Im not sure about the link for where Phil got his..........however, the MM stuff is labeled as Custom Enamel "system" clear, but is lacquer clear.

 

Thusly (or at least the way it appears here in the states:

 

 

This stuff are referring to is bulletproof and will not react or mix with (and is designed to go over) enamel.

 

Brian