mywifehatesmodels Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 With PCM's release of their new, early Anton kit, I'm finally going to be able to fill some holes in my 190 lineup. However, in researching the A-1, I've been left with few color/marking options that seem to be "the one". However, there is one that fits the bill for me. I'm just having trouble verifying exactly what it should be. In a couple of books and on the internet, I've found a couple of photos of an A-1 that has a "shark mouth" design on the lower cowling and a large eye design on the side. Most of the references that I've seen made to this aircraft have called it an A-2. However, it seems pretty clear to me that it's an A-1, given that it has the larger wing root openings for the MG17 and no cooling slots behind the exhaust. Also, in the photos that I have been able to find, the fuselage codes cannot be seen. One book that I have (Warplanes Of The Luftwaffe) claims it to be from II/JG2, but I can't verify that. Here's one photo I found on the web. The one I have in my book appears to be the same plane, but shows the other side of the nose. After hours of searching the web, the only evidence that I've been able to find is from somebody's website that has an order of battle for various JG and, where available, a profile or photo of a particular aircraft. These are often taken from inaccurate sources, such as flight sim skins, very old/outdated books, etc. This site shows two such profiles of this mouth design, stating them to be two different aircraft. The first claims to be "Red 7+-", an A-2 of 5./JG1. As you can see, this is anything but an accurate depiction, so I can't really put any weight into it. Also, the mouth and eyes appear to be slightly different than the photographs that I've found. The next profile, from the same site, looks a lot more like the plane in the photographs. It describes it as being "White 3+-", from 4./JG26. However, if you go back and look at the first photo, you can see another aircraft in the background. The "-" on that plane is certainly not white. While this doesn't prove anything, it (among other things) leaves me questioning the accuracy. I also question the colors being used for the mouth and eye, but I guess that's a matter of interpretation, without more substantial proof and I'm more concerned with the fuselage markings, for the time being. So, if anybody has any more info on this aircraft, or can share some theories/insight, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifehatesmodels Posted June 3, 2010 Author Share Posted June 3, 2010 Jennings, Thanks for your reply. I may end up "fabricating" the rest of the markings, if that's the case. Also, there are actually two photos. The other is in a book that I have, but yields no more clues than the photo posted above. I would almost swear that I saw a third photo somewhere, of an almost frontal view, but that may just be my imagination, since I can't find it now, for the life of me! Thanks again, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 You are right, John : I have seen 3 different photos in books (Aircam Sharkmouth Vol.1+ Osprey Fw190 aces/western front + Defenders of the Reich Vol.1). None of these showing more than the front part of this machine, sorry ! I've asked to author Eric Mombeek, and will let you know if he has more info. The old Aircam had also a profile but I think it shows "guessed" mkgs... To be continued ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattlow Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Think I recall a three quarter frontal view as well. Not sure where though? Charles M probably will know. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesMetz Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Think I recall a three quarter frontal view as well. Not sure where though? Charles M probably will know. One of these, perhaps?: I'm posting these scans under the standard "Fair Use"conditions, which I trust everyone here will respect. Charles Metz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifehatesmodels Posted June 4, 2010 Author Share Posted June 4, 2010 Charles comes through! HOLY COW! The second picture is the one in the book that I was referring to. I've never seen the other two before. Okay, let me soak this all in for a bit. THANK YOU! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 there you go - the power of LSP! the power of Charles Metz!!! :thumbsup: with those pics in hand as it were, my next step would be to perhaps pop over to LEMB and ask more specifically about what clours / markings this bird would have had, given you now know unit etc etc if you are unsure where to ask that question (it's a bit of a maze over there) i would contact the Moderator over there, Peter Evans - i have found him very helpful in the past there has probably been a discussion of this bird anyway on there come to think of it. cool discussion, cool pics Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Most interesting ! I had never seen that second Fw190A. Unfortunately, I can't understand the german text... The other photo I have is very similar to n°2 above, but with one of the cowling panels open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesMetz Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Unfortunately, I can't understand the german text... I've trimmed off the irrelevant part of the caption in my first scan above; the remaining part translates (very) roughly as The third Gruppe of JG 1 received its first Fw 190s in the summer of 1942. This photo was taken at the airfield in East Aalborg and shows a machine supposedly flown by the leader of the seventh Staffel of JG 1, First Lieutenant Harry Koch. Noteworthy on this Fw 190 A of unidentified subtype is the very colorful painting of the engine cowling and spinner. The MG/FF conversion set is built into the outer wings. The caption of my third scan above also states that this aircraft was flown by First Lieutenant Harry Koch at East Aalborg but asserts that it belonged to the first, rather than third, Gruppe of JG 1. Charles Metz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Danke, Charles ! Looks like there is a Gruppe or JG badge painted below the port side of the windshield... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifehatesmodels Posted June 4, 2010 Author Share Posted June 4, 2010 Thanks again, Gents. I'm pretty much sold on the JG26 bird, as I had originally planned. From the research that I've done, it would appear that this is indeed II Gruppe, most likely 5th or 6th Staffel. Now, I'm going with this based off of the fact that the Gruppe bar marking on the plane next to it appears to be very dark, either black (5th Staffel), or Red (6th Staffel) and the knowledge that both of these units used the A-1. At this point, I'm leaning towards 6th Staffel, as the marking does not appear to have a white border, as would be found on the black bar of the 5th Staffel aircraft. Sound logical? with those pics in hand as it were, my next step would be to perhaps pop over to LEMB and ask more specifically about what clours / markings this bird would have had, given you now know unit etc etc I know that acronym from somewhere. What site would that be, again? Thanks again, guys. And, Dr. Metz, you are The Man, as usual! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_K2 Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 I know that acronym from somewhere. What site would that be, again? John http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/forums/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifehatesmodels Posted June 4, 2010 Author Share Posted June 4, 2010 I know that acronym from somewhere. What site would that be, again? John http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/forums/ Thank you, Sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Those look like two different airframes that Charles posted (not counting the third pic), as the teeth and eyes are different. So you have a choice of at least two airframes to model Cheers, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattlow Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 I knew you'd come through Charles. Interesting that your third image is a pretty horrendous attempt at either replicating or modifying a photo - look at the windscreen, engine cowl bulges etc .. very poor effort ! Does anyone see in your first image the eye motif looking like it is stuck on and not following the contours of the cowl? Seems to be attached at the front lower edge and then continue up straight - creating some shadow around the gap between eye and actual cowl...? This machine also has cooling slots, so is a latter mark (as pointed out above). I wonder if the original image posted and your 2nd photo are the 'real' aircraft as it appeared at some time. The other two pics you posted are paper cutouts applied to a real a/c (1st) and poor photo re-touch (3rd) to re-create the original machine...? Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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