Pfuf Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 You can realy get a smooth finish only 1 problem don't move it the frame flex in every direction the skin move's deforms. Now the war condition's were in to the extreem the air framés weren't designed to live longer then a few year's. Moost pictures form the old day's just poor quality everything looks smooth lol. 1 thing I do is sand down the model with a waterproof sandpaper lightly this give's a sharp edge to all the rivet's and seams. johan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill P Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I agree about the rivet detail, last time I was at Duxford I had a good look at the mk22 fuselage in the workshop which is in bare metal stripped down condition, I can tell you that the rivets that fasten the sheet material to the formers [ frames ] have been fitted and then ground down afterwards to achieve a flat surface.True there is a slight witness line around some of the rivets and in many cases it isnt a complete ring where certain parts of the rivet head have been ground and there is not a split line visible at all. The conclusion I came to is that the only rivets needed to show are the larger ones and the fasteners. The rivets are about 6mm diameter and this scales at 0.1875mm. I know we are being picky here and I must say that the photos on Tamiya's website I think show the best rendition of a scale model Spitfire ever. Graham The rivet heads aren't ground down. You will find that the rivets used are solid aluminium alloy countersunk types. Normally installed using an air powered rivet gun and bucking bar (dolly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotsman Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Well the Tamya Spit is up on the Hannants website as a future release , listed at £99.99 , now much as I love the Spit , I'm afraid i'm going to have to pass on this for the time being .. pity ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 The rivet heads aren't ground down. You will find that the rivets used are solid aluminium alloy countersunk types. Normally installed using an air powered rivet gun and bucking bar (dolly). You are pretty much correct but I have to make a distinction...brazier head (round or universal) rivets won't be ground down to flush but countersunk rivets are sometimes shaved to make them perfectly flush with the skin. This is normally done on slightly curved surfaces where the edges of the rivets would protrude above the curvature of the skin. This is done regularly today but in the interests of production at the time, I doubt that it was done. If the skin is thick enough the rivet holes would have been countersunk to accept the flush rivet. If the skin wasn't thick enough, the skin would have been dimpled to accept the countersunk rivet. I have no idea which method was used never having seen a spitfire Mk. IX fuselage up close. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-M Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Well the Tamya Spit is up on the Hannants website as a future release , listed at £99.99 , now much as I love the Spit , I'm afraid i'm going to have to pass on this for the time being .. pity ! Hi Scotsman, I can understand your concern about the price, but could you not order one from the states or even from Japan? The price appears to be much better. GMW wants $101 USD, that seems reasonable for this kit I would think. I pre-ordered mine at $103 Cdn from HLJ, even with shipping it will be a decent price. Cheers Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 well, while we are at it, panel lines are usually neither recessed (we love 'em ) or (hesitates to say the word...) raised (we hate 'em! )... but then that's another can of wrigglies isn't it? to me. rivets are not much different in that the ACCURATE scale representation in 1/32 is difficult / nigh on impossible. i guess it depends on what you like to see... please, let's not have a flame war like on that other site! PS Luckymodle doesn't usually do pre-orders, but i bet you it will be cheaper than GM, HLJ...i'm not even going to go there with H's pricing. Uk consumers are being royally (*&*&^%&^%ed!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-M Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 well, while we are at it, panel lines are usually neither recessed (we love 'em ) or (hesitates to say the word...) raised (we hate 'em! )... but then that's another can of wrigglies isn't it? to me. rivets are not much different in that the ACCURATE scale representation in 1/32 is difficult / nigh on impossible. i guess it depends on what you like to see... please, let's not have a flame war like on that other site! PS Luckymodle doesn't usually do pre-orders, but i bet you it will be cheaper than GM, HLJ...i'm not even going to go there with H's pricing. Uk consumers are being royally (*&*&^%&^%ed!!!! Well, I like the peice of mind I get from the Pre-Order system at HLJ. I have pre-ordered from them before, and have always received the kit shortly after it's been released. Cheers Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 that's cool forgot to say the MAIN reason i use Lucky is that it avoids customs charge bs here in UK... don't you just love the country?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotsman Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I'm sure I can get it cheaper , however since my current employement contract finshed this afternoon, and I'm unsure of my employment status at the moment , £9.99 is too much , let alone £99.99 .. far too much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-M Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I'm sure I can get it cheaper , however since my current employement contract finshed this afternoon, and I'm unsure of my employment status at the moment , £9.99 is too much , let alone £99.99 .. far too much! Sorry to hear about that Scotsman...hope things work out for you quickly. Cheers Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branchline Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Hi Gents, A couple of quickees, I had a follow up post wrt to the rivets comment but have actually been taken out for most of the last four days with a really mean flu virus (It actually started last Thursday and turned really nasty on Sunday evening), I've ended up with a heavy chest infection since making the post which is a first for me - I'm really short of breadth, have a cough that niggles all the time and takes an incredible amount of energy to actually - well just cough - and I simply can't remember the last time I have felt so ill. My good lady is an asthmatic and I've seen her in a bad way many times before but its rather scary to know this is only a bit like what she would be like when not well, several times needing nebuliser support to make it through. I'm not as fit as I should be but not totally unfit either so it has really highlighted just how lucky one is when blessed with good health - make the most of it and respect your health while you have it - am full of drugs now so hopefully on the mend - sorry for dumping, my point was just supposed to be that I didn't mean to dump and run from the rivet post. Rivets, fasteners and more. I wasn't attempting to start a 'flame war' or any form of slinging match with my riveting comments, rather just get some healthy debate going on the subject of minature rivet detail, and to see what the thoughts of others are on the subject as it is often mentioned in build threads. It's absolutely down to personal choice like any hobby aspect is so I'd never criticise what a modeller wants to do or how they want to do it when its their time and model. However, a healthy debate with input like that already provdied I believe can and should be nothing other than informative, if not on the actual mechanics of a subject itself (although with the amount of expertise within the LSP members there will always be wisened advice), and if nothing else at least just people's view and perspective of it (and all it should be done with a dose of humour and a smile on one's face of course). Like many of you I suspect my preferences on how I want my models to look (not far off with one now with luck) comes from working in the aviation industry (check out the thread address below - what a humbling story!), and for me this has been for over 35 years. I've found that in relation to aircraft/aviation related matters often what people perceive is to be and what actually is, are quite different. This is a facit that I beleive is mainly through just not knowing or trying to remember what something should be like rather than actually checking on the point. Regardless the Tamiya Spit looks the part and I'll get one, how I'll handle the rivets, well hopefully I'll have an answer to that when the time comes! http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.ph...amp;hl=workshop You'll be pleased to know I feel the need for more medication, so will sign off here - Best of luck with your next contract Scotsman, keep looking things are supposed to picking up Kind Regards Brent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Brooks Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Any help? As the panels were overlapped, and there was only minimal difference in thickness (20-24 swg, with the occasional 18 swg panel) I'm taking rivet "A" as being the type used. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill P Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 You are pretty much correct but I have to make a distinction...brazier head (round or universal) rivets won't be ground down to flush but countersunk rivets are sometimes shaved to make them perfectly flush with the skin. This is normally done on slightly curved surfaces where the edges of the rivets would protrude above the curvature of the skin. This is done regularly today but in the interests of production at the time, I doubt that it was done. If the skin is thick enough the rivet holes would have been countersunk to accept the flush rivet. If the skin wasn't thick enough, the skin would have been dimpled to accept the countersunk rivet. I have no idea which method was used never having seen a spitfire Mk. IX fuselage up close. Tim Thanks Tim. It's just that in my 20yrs RAAF service as an Aircraft Tech, I never saw countersunk rivets shaved or ground. Mostly Caribou (all flying surfaces were flush riveted) and Iroquois (some). I also had the privilege of helping to reskin various parts of my Dads P-51. No flames intended btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Well the Tamya Spit is up on the Hannants website as a future release , listed at £99.99 , now much as I love the Spit , I'm afraid i'm going to have to pass on this for the time being .. pity ! What single engined 1/32 scale fighter is worth 99£ ????? How is it worth more that a tamiya f-14 or f-4 ?, a third more than a zero - why can we complain about others worth less but we ALWAYS seem to give tamiya a pass? I am not against them at all - i have a Tamiya zero - but if i only brought out 2 prop planes in 5 or so years in our scale i would bring out a perfect kit as well ! no more arguments about other kits being expensive - makes Radu's arado which he spent a lot of time and effort into making it - look like a bargain ! Ads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-M Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Why does it seem that so many guys are stuck on Hannants' price for this kit? Check around fellas, there are better prices around the world of online model stores. You'd be suprised. It's not like we're talking Woolworths here, you do have choices!! Cheers Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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