Spitfire question

[Hagar]

I have Radu's Spitfire Mk XIV conversion but want to do a razor back. I am thinking of using the Cammet Mk XVI tail. The question for the experts is will the Mk XVI tail work for a mk XIV? thanks in advance.

James

[Edgar Brooks]

No; the l/e of the XIV's fin was pulled forward, quite markedly.

Edgar

[Erwin]

James,I hope you don't mind me using your topic.But now we are on the subject of Spitfires.

 

What color were the seats in early (black/white undersides ) Spits ?

 

The instructions in the 32 nd Has kit say aluminium.But it maybe wrong.

 

Perhaps that redish-brown bacelite ?

[Hagar]

James,I hope you don't mind me using your topic.But now we are on the subject of Spitfires.

 

What color were the seats in early (black/white undersides ) Spits ?

 

The instructions in the 32 nd Has kit say aluminium.But it maybe wrong.

 

Perhaps that redish-brown bacelite ?

 

 

Not a problem. I thought they were all bakelite from the get go?

James

[Hagar]

No; the l/e of the XIV's fin was pulled forward, quite markedly.

Edgar

 

 

Thats not what I wanted to hear. Hmm okay, next question. Is anyone making a Mk XIV razorback conversion?

James

[dennismcc]

Paragon designs made a resin low back XIV conversion, I've got one in the stash, if you contact Neil either on this forum or Britmodeller he may still have some conversions, I,m pretty sure I saw a post of his to that effect recently either on this forum or Britmodeller.

 

Cheers

 

Den

[Edgar Brooks]

James,I hope you don't mind me using your topic.But now we are on the subject of Spitfires.

What color were the seats in early (black/white undersides ) Spits ?

The instructions in the 32 nd Has kit say aluminium.But it maybe wrong.

Perhaps that redish-brown bacelite ?

Until May, 1940, all seats were metal, and the one that I found, recently, still in use in a XVI, is green; this is not the "usual" cockpit grey-green, but the green seen in the cockpits of Mk.I AR213 and some Walruses, which is matched by Humbrol 90. The "plastic seat," as it was originally known, did not replace the metal seat, but was seen as an alternative. Certainly, I've found drawings, quite late in Spitfire and Seafire production, which specify duralumin as the material, and a mod, dated 1945, on the harness, states that it could only be done if the metal, or plastic, seats were above a minimum thickness. When the RAF Museum had their pre-war Mk.I rebuilt, the (metal) seat was painted green. However, the Patrick Stephens book specified black, so you pays yer money and takes yer choice.

Edgar

[Hagar]

As we are talking about seats now, why would they use Bakelite anyways? Was there any danger of the seat shattering if hit? I would think an armoured metal seat would be better but I really dont know. This is kind of interesting actually.

James

 

 

PS thanks for the heads up on Paragon.

[R Palimaka]

I always wondered why Bakelite was used. Clearly it worked, but it seemed like a brittle material to me. Perhaps it was stronger the thicker the walls were? I seem to remember a story from one pilot biography where the seat gave way during a hard landing in a Spit.

 

James, Vasko Barbic of Warbirds also has a low-back (bubble canopy) Mk.XIVe conversion as well as the high-back (razorbacked) XIVc. I just wrote to him and he sent back a list of items for Spits and Seafires in 1/32, as well as tail corrections for the Mig 15 and 17. He can be reached at timsah@onetel.com.

 

Cheers,

Richard

[Hagar]

I always wondered why Bakelite was used. Clearly it worked, but it seemed like a brittle material to me. Perhaps it was stronger the thicker the walls were? I seem to remember a story from one pilot biography where the seat gave way during a hard landing in a Spit.

 

James, Vasko Barbic of Warbirds also has a low-back (bubble canopy) Mk.XIVe conversion as well as the high-back (razorbacked) XIVc. I just wrote to him and he sent back a list of items for Spits and Seafires in 1/32, as well as tail corrections for the Mig 15 and 17. He can be reached at timsah@onetel.com.

 

Cheers,

Richard

 

 

Thanks. I almost forgot I wanted a Mig 15 correction. I'll give him a shout.

James

[Edgar Brooks]

Don't think Bakelite, as in the crystalline material; in fact the "resin" seat (which is how it was always referred to by Vickers) was a combination of (probably epoxy) resin and paper, and, if you ever made papier mache, as a child, you'll know how strong reinforced paper can be. There were problems with the seat, and it had to be strengthened in April 1942, and again in 1945, when the QK harness (still a Sutton, incidentally) was fitted; the modification was mandatory if the seat, whether plastic or metal, had a wall thickness below .15". In September 1945, the seat had to be strengthened, again, where the QK harness was attached. Seafire seats had another round of strengthening in 1947, after the QS (quick-release parachute-type fitting) harness was fitted. This was probably due to the strain of deck-landing, since Spitfires missed out on that one.

Edgar

[bdthoresen]

Very interesting. Working with modern day composites, I can attest how strong they are- some of them are even more strong than their aluminum structured counterparts- The thing with Bakelite, which I read somewhere years ago when I started A&P school, was that although strong, the resin was extremely flammable under the right conditions......Not a good thing for a cockpit one would think!

 

THOR

[Derek B]

Hi James,

 

Vasko Barbic (Warbird Productions) may be able to assist you with your low-back modification part, which looks fairly good (see attached pic). I am sure that Neil Burke's similar item is also as good. Good luck with your conversion.

 

 

Derek