A couple of Spitfire undercarriage questions

[19squadron]

A clearer picture of the charging and relief valves, the latter with a locking line.

 

 

 

Edited February 4 by 19squadron

[geedubelyer]

@MikeC and @19squadron, superb images, many thanks. 

 

I am grateful for the explanation of the components. It helps tremendously and is just the ticket.

Much appreciated. 

Edited February 5 by geedubelyer

[19squadron]

8 minutes ago, geedubelyer said:

@MikeC and @19squadron, superb images, many thanks. 

 

I am grateful for the explanation of the components. It helps tremendously and is just the tickey.

Much appreciated. 

My pleasure - there's a lot going on with these things called planes! Gets EVEN worse with jets! [I'm told!]

[rsanz]

On 2/4/2024 at 8:08 AM, LSP_Ron said:

Edgar and I had a conversation here at LSP about 15 years ago regarding gear color. I'll see if I can find that when I get a free minute.  You may also find info on some of his online documents. 

As far as I can tell from WWII photos, the undercarriage struts/legs wwere pretty much always painted the same as the factory painted underside colour, as were the insides of the doors and wheel wells (and wheels). I assume new/repaired replacement parts might be finished differently which could add some variety. 

 

 

[19squadron]

36 minutes ago, rsanz said:

As far as I can tell from WWII photos, the undercarriage struts/legs wwere pretty much always painted the same as the factory painted underside colour, as were the insides of the doors and wheel wells (and wheels). I assume new/repaired replacement parts might be finished differently which could add some variety. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most of those colour pics look thoroughly "un-factory like"  paint jobs to me and therefore highly dubious.

 

 

and it's never that simple here is K9798 originally all silver underside, with a port wheel hub in black, and the oleo and oleo door remain silver.

 

 

 

 

 

[19squadron]

Here is another pic of a MkVII on trials, with oleos clearly looking very different to wheel hubs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rsanz]

4 hours ago, 19squadron said:

...and it's never that simple here is K9798 originally all silver underside, with a port wheel hub in black, and the oleo and oleo door remain silver.

 

 

 

 

 

You could well be right about K9798, although if the port wheel has been repainted black, it certainly wasn't repainted with the same very matt Night as the undersides because it's too reflective. It might still be in painted aluminium and only appears black/dark because it is in dark shadow.

[19squadron]

1 hour ago, rsanz said:

You could well be right about K9798, although if the port wheel has been repainted black, it certainly wasn't repainted with the same very matt Night as the undersides because it's too reflective. It might still be in painted aluminium and only appears black/dark because it is in dark shadow.

 

 

 

"Night" black was not "very matt".

 

Coded, Aircraft Finish no 8, Night was a very dark blue black which had much the same reflective surface as the Dark Green, and Earth of the main camo colours. "Night" was the colour used on spinners, and on the undersides of Fighter Command aircraft from 20th december 1938 under Airministry order A.154.

 

The "very matt Night" as you call it was a totally different paint, called "Special Night" and coded RDM2 and RDM2A, described as a "sooty matt" true black and was used as the colour of the underside for bombers and overall colour for Defiants and Blenheims initially and then Beaufighters in the Nightfighter role, but never used on day fighters. Special Night was introduced for september 1939 for Bombers and Nightfighters, and used until december 1942, when it was superseded by " Night", Aircraft Finish no 8. Different paints, different colours, different reflective surfaces.

 

here is a pic of Aircraft Finish no 8, "Night" on a Spitfire in 1938, showing the same paint under the port wing as on the spinner, and the camo green/earth with the same reflectivity.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5 by 19squadron
addition of pic

[Dpgsbody55]

Some great information here.  My thanks to all who've contributed.

 

 

Cheers,

Michael

[geedubelyer]

That last image is a splendid reference for propeller blade weathering @19squadron, thank you but we are perhaps in danger of straying off topic a little and clouding the chat about undercarriage. What surprises me is just how much paint has chipped off the front lip of the oil cooler intake given that this aircraft can't have been in service for many months.

 

After all of the help and terrific imagery of the undercarriage I think I am going to select the straight relief pipe for my model. The gear wells are already underside colour but I shall go with silver for the door inners and gear legs on this occasion. 

 

I have the Kotare Mk1a Mid edition to build in due course and for that one I'm more likely to go with the curved relief pipe and underside colour for the gear legs and wheels.

[waroff]

HTH

 

[MikeC]

3 minutes ago, waroff said:

HTH

 

 

Absolument!  That makes sense; I was puzzling how it could be a pressure release duct when the top (see my photo above) is flattened.  I take it that the "straight" configuration was simply an alternative, but there seems from observation to be no rule about why some of these rods are curved as illustrated, and others straight - and as per my photos above, both configurations on the same airframe.  Of course, these are restorations, so we can't draw any conclusions about in-service aircraft in that regard from them.

 

Thank you for finding and sharing that.

 

[19squadron]

1 hour ago, MikeC said:

 

Absolument!  That makes sense; I was puzzling how it could be a pressure release duct when the top (see my photo above) is flattened.  I take it that the "straight" configuration was simply an alternative, but there seems from observation to be no rule about why some of these rods are curved as illustrated, and others straight - and as per my photos above, both configurations on the same airframe.  Of course, these are restorations, so we can't draw any conclusions about in-service aircraft in that regard from them.

 

Thank you for finding and sharing that.

 

Your pic at the top is annotated with the Relief valve arrowed, as described in the manual text.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5 by 19squadron
addition of pic

[19squadron]

1 hour ago, MikeC said:

 

Absolument!  That makes sense; I was puzzling how it could be a pressure release duct when the top (see my photo above) is flattened.  I take it that the "straight" configuration was simply an alternative, but there seems from observation to be no rule about why some of these rods are curved as illustrated, and others straight - and as per my photos above, both configurations on the same airframe.  Of course, these are restorations, so we can't draw any conclusions about in-service aircraft in that regard from them.

 

Thank you for finding and sharing that.

 

Wartime pic.

 

 

 

 

[19squadron]

 

 

And K9787 in 1940 with the first [smaller dia] design of wheel hub, also used on K5054, and with struts showing the locking line from the relief valve around the oleo.

Edited February 5 by 19squadron
addition of pic