Airbrush Issues

[LSP_Kevin]

As I noted in my DC-4 thread, I'm currently experiencing performance issues with both my main airbrushes, and thought I might throw the issue out to members who may have experienced (and solved) similar problems. Apologies in advance for the long-winded post!

 

For many years my main airbrush has been an Iwata HP-C Plus, which is well known and used as a great workhorse painting tool. A few years ago I made the mistake of dunking it in an ultrasonic cleaner, and it's never been the same since. I stopped using it altogether a couple of years ago, and was forced to use my backup H&S Evolution CR Plus as my main airbrush. It's a decent airbrush, but notably inferior to the Iwata.

 

Yesterday while applying SMS Super Silver the DC-4, I immediately experienced problem with it, with stop/start paint flow, sputtering, and having to continually pull the trigger all the way back to force a spurt of paint out. I tested it with other paints too, and they all exhibited the problem to some extent. There was no tip drying in evidence, and I had to thin the paint quite a bit to get the job done. I got there in the end, but it was no fun at all. I've stripped and cleaned the airbrush 3 times now (including putting just the nozzle parts in the ultrasonic cleaner), and need to do another round of testing to see where it's at.

 

In the meantime, I decided it was time to pull out the Iwata and try to get it working again, seeing as now both my airbrushes were out of action. Stripped, cleaned, nozzle parts in the ultrasonic cleaner, reassembled. Problems still remain, the worst of which is that I have to pull the trigger back nearly halfway before any medium flows out of the nozzle. Once it does, it atomises quite nicely (noticeably better than the H&S), but it's nearly full bore by then. I also started getting the dreaded spongy trigger, so I disassembled and tweaked the air valve, which improved it somewhat - but now the trigger causes a popping noise when it's released!

 

That's the state of play right now. In an attempt to fix the first issue with the Iwata, I'm currently soaking the nozzle in lacquer thinner, in the hopes of removing any detritus that might be partially blocking it. But I still have no idea how to fix the spongy, farting trigger. And I need to re-test the Evolution to see if things have improved there.

 

I'll report back after those things are done, and I do have two never-used DragonAir airbrushes to fall back on (and probably will in the interim), but I'm really keen to get at least the Iwata up and running again, as it's the best airbrush I have.

 

If you've had and been able to resolve any of these issues, please let me know!

 

Kev, the Frustrated

[thierry laurent]

As you get similar issues with two airbrushes that have been fully disassembled, the issue is very probably linked to another parameter: your air source. Check that first and if possible test the airbrushes with another source. 

[LSP_Kevin]

1 hour ago, thierry laurent said:

As you get similar issues with two airbrushes that have been fully disassembled, the issue is very probably linked to another parameter: your air source. Check that first and if possible test the airbrushes with another source. 

 

The issues really aren't that similar though - though both exhibit features of a blocked nozzle. I think I may have sorted out the Evolution at this point, subject to some more testing. But the Iwata refuses to play ball, and at one point it wouldn't spray at all! It does have a slightly leaky quick release connector, though, so I'm going to replace that. I've also finished soaking its nozzle in lacquer thinner for a few hours, but it made no difference, and poking a wire through it from both ends gave no indication of any material blocking it. With nothing to lose at this point, I might try some acetone next, though, just in case there's a stubborn paint build-up lurking in there.

 

Kev

[Cheetah11]

Hi Kevin

Iwata airbrushes have close tolerances and in my experience need to be lubricated to function flawlessly. Ultra Sonic cleaning most likely removed the lubricant as shipped by the factory. I use a tiny amount of Teflon grease (bought years ago at a gun show) whenever I re-assemble my Iwata's after cleaning. 

There is a tool available to clean the  inside of the tip . I use Tamiya airbrush cleaner instead of lacquer thinner as it has stronger solvents. 

The one change I made to my HP-BC years ago (similar to  the HP-C) was to replace the neoprene  O-ring with a a cork one. The new Iwata airbrushes have hard Teflon seals and get sticky if any paint or thinner dries on it. BTW the HP-BC was bought in 1987 and still performs flawlessly. Using the bottom cup is a bit of a schlepp. 

[LSP_Kevin]

Well, it's the end of the day's play here, so I'll give a brief progress report of where things are right now. Firstly, I've ordered a new Iwata-branded quick release connector and some lube for the HP-C Plus. The generic quick release unit I've been using with it has been a bit leaky from Day One (apparently quite common with the cheap and nasty ones), and that probably isn't helping matters right now. It's easy (though not cheap!) to take care of, so hopefully it'll be here soon.

 

Soaking the Iwata nozzle in lacquer thinner and trying to ream it out with wire produced no signs of finding let alone clearing any blockage, and subsequent testing proved that the problem still persists. Interestingly, after performing the final paint test using SMS White, when I withdrew the needle to clean everything up (I always withdraw the needle through the front, never out the rear), almost the entire length of the needle was covered in thin white paint! This suggests that the rear seals are possibly not functioning properly, and perhaps the airbrush needs a full tear down and clean. Not sure I'm confident enough to attempt that. I'm also not sure it would cause the issues I'm having, but concede that I really don't know.

 

In any case, and just to be sure, I've now got the nozzle soaking overnight in a small jar of acetone, and we'll see what it's like in the morning. If there's still no residue coming out of it, then that's unlikely to be the problem.

 

As for the Evolution, I think I've got that sorted now, as in the latest tests it seemed to be performing close to normally. I do need to do some more testing, though - especially with the paints that started the trouble in the first place! I'll do those last, so I can be sure if they're actually part of the problem or not.

 

So, a frustrating day at the office today, but hopefully better luck tomorrow. Stay tuned!

 

Kev

[Furie]

Hi Kev, I don’t know if that answers your question, but I ordered this product that originally allows to clean the nozzles for 3D printer.
I took sizes 0.2, 0.25, 0.3 and 0.4.
So when I clean my airbrush, I select the needle that matches my needle/nozzle in place on the airbrush and I am sure to have a complete and accurate cleaning of the nozzle.

 

Aiguille de nettoyage pour imprimante 3D, 10 pièces/lot, buse en acier inoxydable 1.75mm/3.0mm, pièces de nettoyage de buse 0.15 ~ 1.0mm, tailles mixtes - AliExpress

 

 

 

And also these 2 products to clean the rest of the airbrush:

 

100 Pièces Brosse Interdentaire Cure-Dents de Soie Dentaire Brosse d'Hygiène Dentaire Buccale Cure-Dents de Soie Dentaire Outil de Nettoyage de Dent (Rouge Blanc Vert Vert Clair, Bleu Clair) : Amazon.fr: Hygiène et Santé

 

Brosses interdentaires MoriVeda® NP-Vital, Jeu de 12 (0,6/0,7/0,8 mm), Brosses interdentaires pour une hygiène buccale propre, Fonction Push-Pull, Développées avec des laboratoires dentaires. MIX : Amazon.fr: Hygiène et Santé

 

The store where I bought my Infinity strongly advised me not to clean it in an ultrasound tray because according to him, it damages the internal seals.

But to clean the nozzles and needles I think it is suitable.

 

 

Kev, did you watch those tutorials?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Furie

[denders]

Kev,

 

I have one of each, I use the HP-C+ most of the time. (There are others too.)

 

1. The H&S, which needle and tip do you have in it, 0.15, 0.20, or 0.40? I don't have any of the SMS Super Silver, but it sounds like it may be a high particle content paint and there are too many solids for the size of the needle/tip. A possibility?

 

2. The HPC+, I'm going to throw this parts diagram in here first.

 

 

When you draw the needle out the front and it's covered with paint, that would suggest that paint is still in the bottom of the cup and perhaps further back. I guess it depends on how much paint you're talking about. Most of the time when I draw the needle out, there's a small amount of paint which I clean off on a paper towel with a drop of thinner on it. But that's after I've run some thinner through the airbrush. I draw mine out the back.

 

So, parts I1257 and I7251 are the rear seal, it keeps paint out of the air valve. How snug is the needle when you slide it in? There should be some resistance there, not a lot, but some to indicate that the seal is going to do its job. Too much resistance and it'll affect how the needle works in flow control. If you look in from the rear, you'll see screwdriver slots in the metal piece. With a screwdriver, you can adjust it. It should only take a small rotation to do the job. I'm talking like at most 30 degrees.

 

I'm going to throw a few more photos here.

 

 

I'm one of those guys who doesn't mind spending a little money to take care of my tools. The Iwata tool kit has some very useful tools. There is an extra screwdriver in there and the brass-colored thing. The brass-colored thing is a reamer which I think is better than a wire for cleaning out the nozzle. Found on Amazon. The red thing in the tool kit is better for removing and replacing the tip. You're less likely to over torque the tip and twist if off.

 

I've done that with one of those 'cheap' brands and that little wrench that comes with them. And for what it's worth, Badger makes a little 3-flute reamer that can be used to extract the broken off tip. I forget the part number. If I remember it or find it, I'll edit the post.

 

Edit: The Badger part is 50-061. It is probably too large to use as a reamer in the Iwata type nozzles. But as mentioned, it's great for removing a twisted off nozzle.

 

I haven't watched any of the posted videos, but I've sworn off using pipe cleaners for cleaning the airbrush. They leave too many fibers behind in the airbrush.

 

Dave

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by denders

[thierry laurent]

One basic recommendation I got more than thirty years ago from a professional artist: even if this is a little bit time consuming, always disassemble fully the airbrush and check the seals/rings after EACH use. He explained to me many people don't do it and that in at least 75% of the cases this is indeed useless. However in the other 25% you get a little bit of paint entering in the body of the airbrush and if you do not see it when this occurs this may be a real pain to clean it later. Actually the time you save when not checking and doing a quick clean-up, you are losing it as you get problems during the use and need far more time to do a full maintenance of the tool. This has also other positive side effects. One being the fact that the lifetime of the seals is noticeably longer. 

[LSP_Kevin]

Thanks everybody. I've just fished the nozzle out of it's overnight bath in acetone, and reamed it out with a very fine piece of wire. Nothing. There was, however, quite a lot of white residue at the bottom of the acetone jar, but it looks too much to have come out of the airbrush nozzle, and I would have expected it to be darker, anyway. But you never know, I guess. Next job is to reassemble everything and test it again.

 

@denders Dave, my Iwata maintenance kit didn't come with the yellow reamer tool. No idea why, but they are available separately for cheap, so I'll have to get one. It was an expensive set, and the zipper was secured with a cable tie, so it couldn't have just "fallen out". Very disappointing. I too have sworn off pipe cleaners after I got fed up with fishing their fibres out of my airbrush.

 

@Furie Thanks, Denis. I haven't watched those videos, but will check them out.

 

Full disassembly may be required, but it's something I'm trying to avoid, as the chances of me not ruining something, or getting it back together properly, are less than 100%. I think I'd rather buy a new airbrush every year than disassemble it every time I use it!

 

Kev

[Furie]

You know, Kev, once you dismantle the nozzle, the nozzle head and the needle, well you don’t have much left to do: you dismantle the back of your airbrush, unscrew the part that holds the trigger of your airbrush (with the spring) then you take a flat screwdriver (I take an electrician’s screwdriver) that I place at the back and I unscrew the last part where the joint is.
The complete disassembly of my airbrush takes me less than 5 minutes and with the tutorials on YT you really can not go wrong or damage it.

 

Looking at the diagram posted by Denders, there is even a chance that your Iwata does not have this screw/ joint to disassemble and so it is even easier for you.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Furie

[thierry laurent]

Indeed, it is a PITA the first times you are doing it but I can guarantee you that if you do it frequently you will do it very quickly and without any issue such as damaging it! Actually the less you're doing it higher is the risk to have a problem. Of course there is still the risk to damage the needle tip but even if you do not dismantle it the risk exists when you clean the head and I've yet to meet one long time airbrush user who never damaged a needle, even slightly! Finally, this is a matter of taste but I'm convinced this was a good advice.

[quang]

1 hour ago, LSP_Kevin said:

've just fished the nozzle out of it's overnight bath in acetone, and reamed it out with a very fine piece of wire. Nothing. There was, however, quite a lot of white residue at the bottom of the acetone jar, but it looks too much to have come out of the airbrush nozzle, and I would have expected it to be darker, anyway. But you never know,

I think I know. 
Your nozzle tip is obviously blocked by hardened white paint (hence the color of the residue).
Soaking is not enough. You can try to remove the dirt by introducing the appropriate sized needle into the nozzle and pull it out in a backwards move. DO NOT ream the needle or push it forward, you’d only enlarge and distord the nozzle tip. The dirt will come out like tiny worms.

Repeat a few times while the nozzle is still soaking. You’d be surprised how much dead paint a supposedly ’clean’ nozzle can hold.

 

Often this issue comes with the trigger being stuck in the ‘air on’ position. The problem comes with paint coming from the cup backwards and hardening on the trigger. Once the trigger is dismantled and cleaned up along with the arriving air intake, the problem will disappear.

 

HTH

Quang

 

[denders]

1 hour ago, LSP_Kevin said:

@denders Dave, my Iwata maintenance kit didn't come with the yellow reamer tool. No idea why, but they are available separately for cheap, so I'll have to get one. It was an expensive set, and the zipper was secured with a cable tie, so it couldn't have just "fallen out". Very disappointing. I too have sworn off pipe cleaners after I got fed up with fishing their fibres out of my airbrush.

Kev, when I said there's an extra screwdriver and the brass-colored thing, I meant that they weren't part of the original kit. Sorry if you misunderstood.

 

I've only been using MRP in my HP-C+. I paint and then pour the remainder back into the MRP bottle. I have a 4 oz. squeeze bottle with hardware store lacquer thinner in it. I squirt some of that lacquer thinner into the airbrush cup, use a cotton bud to clean down the sidewalls, spray some of that through the airbrush. The rest is poured into a jar. I repeat that a second time. I pull the needle and squirt a few drops of lacquer thinner into the cup while holding the trigger down. It sprays out immediately because there isn't a needle in place. (Make sure you have air on otherwise the lacquer thinner could run back into the air valve.) I then wipe off the needle, even if I don't think I see any residue on it. Then put the needle back into the airbrush and spray a couple of drops of lacquer thinner again. I'm not sure when I last did a deep clean on it. BUT, like I said, I only use it for MRP (and SMS) paints. SMS isn't as thinned as MRP, it does take a little more effort to clean it. I don't use the HP-C+ for acrylic paint, I have other airbrushes for those paints.

[LSP_Kevin]

5 minutes ago, denders said:

Kev, when I said there's an extra screwdriver and the brass-colored thing, I meant that they weren't part of the original kit. Sorry if you misunderstood.

 

Interesting. Someone on Facebook also advised that I use the reamer tool from the Iwata kit, and confirmed it was the same orange part, so I assumed it came as standard. Anyway, I've ordered one from Amazon, and should have it tomorrow.

 

Kev

[denders]

Don't draw any blood.  It's really pointy.

 

I had edited the post to include the Badger airbrush reamer part number. It makes it really easy to remove a twisted off nozzle, just in case.