1/32 Tam Spit IXc SK+N "Ducky": Question for the Spitfire Experts

[Chek]

I'll merely state that you will never find a photo of a Mk IX with a B wing cannon armament.

Drum feeds were obsolete, regardless of what an old contract may have specified.

[jenshb]

The appearance of the 20 mm cannon of the B-wing were also different from the C-wing configuration, so what seems to be confusing is the lack of an outboard "stub" that is blanked off with a hemispherical fairing which was common on the C-wing.  Not sure why this aircraft doesn't have that as removing the additional "collar" for the outboard 20 mm cannons would have been far more work for very little gain, although I believe Seafires with the C-wing often only had the 20 mm cannon fairing with no additional "stub", so maybe the aircraft was made like this or had a wing change?

[Thunderbolt]

Great discussion, gents! 
I had found this website as a source months ago; it’s where I sourced my pictures from. 
 

https://www.absa3945.com/Pertes Bretagne/Cotes Armor/12 juin 44/moffat_wilson-GB.htm

[Thunderbolt]

27 minutes ago, jenshb said:

The appearance of the 20 mm cannon of the B-wing were also different from the C-wing configuration, so what seems to be confusing is the lack of an outboard "stub" that is blanked off with a hemispherical fairing which was common on the C-wing.  Not sure why this aircraft doesn't have that as removing the additional "collar" for the outboard 20 mm cannons would have been far more work for very little gain, although I believe Seafires with the C-wing often only had the 20 mm cannon fairing with no additional "stub", so maybe the aircraft was made like this or had a wing change?

Right. This was exactly my confusion when making this model. I’ve sanded and filled the stub area. 

[thammond65]

7 hours ago, fastterry said:

Is the serial number known for sure on this aircraft as I think it is one of the 100 Mk V airframes converted to Mk IX standard and features a 'B' wing ie 2 x 20mm Hispano and 4 x .303 machine guns. The initial batch of Mk IX's were in the serial range BR & BS and could have either B or C wings according to Spitfire the History by Shacklady. To me it looks like a well used airframe and, if one of the original conversions, would be at least two years old by the time the photo was taken. Interesting it has the late war 'torpedo' drop tank. I also think the codes would still be in Sky as per official directives. Just my two bobs worth.

TRF

 

I'm not a Spitfire expert nor a boffin but a Mk IX with a B wing really got me interested. MK471 was issued to 39 MU 1-3-44, issued to 165 sqn 30-3-44 and Failed To Return 12-6-44. I think aircraft in the photo is a replacement with the same code letters. One other small thing, MK471 would have had an Aero Vee carb intake (the long one) as per the Montex profile, the aircraft in the photo has the original short one which fits it being an early airframe.

But isn't the cigar fuel tank indicative of a later IXc? It's difficult to tell but I don't see the typical bulge on the side of the upper cowling that you see on converted Vbs either? 

[thammond65]

2 hours ago, thunderbolt1988 said:

Right. This was exactly my confusion when making this model. I’ve sanded and filled the stub area. 

I wonder whether it's there but not quite in picture? It would probably be masked on the starboard wing by the cannon and the aircraft is parked at quite an angle to the camera so the nearest part (horizontally speaking) is actually the wrong by the port cannon. It may be that it just cuts off the stub as the area ofcwing leading edge is actually quite small. It's difficult to believe they would remove the whole mechanism and fill it and paint it all so well?

[Thunderbolt]

It's interesting to note that the invasion stripes were ordered for fighters on June 4 1944. This fighter was lost on June 12th 1944. It probably never had the stripes in the first place? Certainly, it did not go through through the process of stripe application and removal/cover-up as other fighters did.

Edited February 15, 2021 by thunderbolt1988

[RLWP]

32 minutes ago, thunderbolt1988 said:

It's interesting to note that the invasion stripes were ordered for fighters on June 4 1944. This fighter was lost on June 12th 1944. It probably never had the stripes in the first place? Certainly, it did not go through through the process of stripe application and removal/cover-up as other fighters did.

 

If it flew on or around D-day, it had the stripes. With no stripes it would have been shot down

 

Richard

[Thunderbolt]

2 minutes ago, RLWP said:

 

If it flew on or around D-day, it had the stripes. With no stripes it would have been shot down

 

Richard

I guess I was implying a delay in application since there would have been only a week to do it. Thoughts?

[Chek]

Some of the stripes were applied overnight on the 5th June sometimes using brooms as paintbrushes, and the greatest care wasn't taken in applying them in some cases.

[RLWP]

2 hours ago, Chek said:

Some of the stripes were applied overnight on the 5th June sometimes using brooms as paintbrushes, and the greatest care wasn't taken in applying them in some cases.

 

 

Do you think those erks were whistling while they worked?

 

Richard

[RLWP]

4 hours ago, thunderbolt1988 said:

It's interesting to note that the invasion stripes were ordered for fighters on June 4 1944. This fighter was lost on June 12th 1944. It probably never had the stripes in the first place? Certainly, it did not go through through the process of stripe application and removal/cover-up as other fighters did.

 

So, you're chosen 'plane must have been flying on the 12th, and probably before. The order to modify/remove the stripes came in July 1944. Moffat-Wilson was flying ground attack on the 12th from Cornwall over France in exactly the area that the stripes were intended to be used

 

Can you come up with a reason why it didn't have the stripes, I'd say it would be highly unlikely

 

This website has gone with the stripes: https://www.absa3945.com/Pertes Bretagne/Cotes Armor/12 juin 44/moffat_wilson-GB.htm

 

Richard

[Thunderbolt]

34 minutes ago, RLWP said:

 

So, you're chosen 'plane must have been flying on the 12th, and probably before. The order to modify/remove the stripes came in July 1944. Moffat-Wilson was flying ground attack on the 12th from Cornwall over France in exactly the area that the stripes were intended to be used

 

Can you come up with a reason why it didn't have the stripes, I'd say it would be highly unlikely

 

This website has gone with the stripes: https://www.absa3945.com/Pertes Bretagne/Cotes Armor/12 juin 44/moffat_wilson-GB.htm

 

Richard

Yes just as well the photos above were likely taken before D-Day given his heavy RAF shearling jacket. So the question concerning the very dark shade near the roundel remains pertinent. I may just use a darker shade of RAF DG in that area....

[RLWP]

6 minutes ago, thunderbolt1988 said:

Yes just as well the photos above were likely taken before D-Day given his heavy RAF shearling jacket. So the question concerning the very dark shade near the roundel remains pertinent. I may just use a darker shade of RAF DG in that area....

 

It seems to follow the dark area of the A camouflage scheme (more or less)

 

Richard

[Thunderbolt]

Made some progress on the undersurfaces as shown below. I used AK Real Colors for the MSG and a custom mix of Tamiya paints for the insignia which were painted using Montex masks. 
 

I primed with Tamiya white primer and then applied black selectively to areas as a pre-shade. I avoid cross-hatch preshading and instead placed it aft of the casing ejection ports, etc. I then applied a coat of the AK MSG, then varied it with a mix of AK off white and AK MSG. 

The insignia is difficult to get a hard edge on, as Wolf Buddee pointed out in his spectacular build, because of the bulge directly underlying the mask. I held the edges down with sharp tweezers in my non-dominant hand and am pleased with the result. I deliberately sprayed lighter versions of the blue and red so I would have better control with darkening washes etc. 

I had another question for the experts though: what was the color of the base of the mast, part L7? Not sure if it’s a brown or RAF DG. Per the picture of this plane, the base is an island of its own color amidst the RAF OG. Seems to match the nearby DG, but a quick search seems to suggest a shade of brown may be more correct. Thanks in advance! 

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by thunderbolt1988