Israeli early F-4E Phantom intake question

[Padubon]

Hello fellow plastic addicts,

 

I want to build a couple of Israeli Phantoms, (1/48 ZM and 1/32 Tam), that fought in the Yom Kippur war, but I have a hard time finding references showing the intakes.

I have found a few pictures barely showing white, starting at the intake lips and only one showing brown.

If painted, was it done at 36”, 24” or 12”?

Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

 

Paul

[Finn]

Here is one:

 

 

Jari

[Padubon]

4 hours ago, Jennings Heilig said:

The IDF birds were painted in IDF camo at the factory, and the factory standard was 12" inside the intake lip.  Beyond that they were white.

 

2 hours ago, Finn said:

Here is one:

 

 

Jari

Thank you very much gentlemen, my questions has been answered.

[aircommando130]

Don't know what squadron you were looking at doing but F-4E 109 of 201 squadron 

had 7 air to air kills in the Yom Kippur war. Had the long Midas 4 gun muzzle and the EL 

strip lights on the fuselage/tail.

 

Cheers...Ron

[Cheetah11]

 

Hi Paul

 

Just a small point on the painting. Israeli aircraft painted in the US at the factory had a larger feather (Approx six inches as was the factory spec) than aircraft repainted during refurbishment in Israel. It is worthwhile to try and get a period photo during 1973, I think not all the Yom Kippur aircraft had slatted wings as well and the long gun muzzle. The first a/c batch so supplied was in Dec 71 with the rest retrofitted as kits became available. See if you can find Osprey's Israeli F-4 Aces.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Cheetah11
Additional text

[aircommando130]

Or a SEA painted "Toad" F-4 that delivered to Israel during operation "Nickle Grass".

US insignia/tail codes painted out and Israeli Star of David painted on the intakes and then flown

in combat. A bunch stayed painted that way for several years till repainted in Israel to the desert

paint.

 

Cheers...Ron

[Padubon]

14 hours ago, aircommando130 said:

Don't know what squadron you were looking at doing but F-4E 109 of 201 squadron 

had 7 air to air kills in the Yom Kippur war. Had the long Midas 4 gun muzzle and the EL 

strip lights on the fuselage/tail.

 

Cheers...Ron

I thought about this one but it has the in flight refueling probe and slatted wings. Also I do not have decals for it.

I want an early one, one USAF “Israelized” for the IAF.

I’m leaning towards 147 from Bat Squadron. It has the short gun muzzle cover and no slats. Only two victories though!

[aircommando130]

The inflight refueling probe and slatted wing were added after the war.

[Padubon]

5 hours ago, aircommando130 said:

The inflight refueling probe and slatted wing were added after the war.

That is true to the IAF Phantoms delivered before 1972, because in that year the F-4s started to be manufactured with the slats and to retrofit existing ones.

The IAF received about 280 F-4s starting in 1969 and through most of the 70s, so, by October of 73, it is quite likely that some spanking new Phantoms, with factory slats, made it before the war.

 

[Dave Williams]

38 minutes ago, Padubon said:

That is true to the IAF Phantoms delivered before 1972, because in that year the F-4s started to be manufactured with the slats and to retrofit existing ones.

The IAF received about 280 F-4s starting in 1969 and through most of the 70s, so, by October of 73, it is quite likely that some spanking new Phantoms, with factory slats, made it before the war.

 

 
According to the double ugly book on IAF Phantoms, the first batch of PEACE ECHO IV F-4s were delivered March 1972 - March 1973.  They were Blocks 48 (14)  and 49 (5).  The second batch of 8 were delivered in October/November 1973 and were Block 50s, intermixed with emergency USAF replacements.  The 5 Block 49s and those of the 8 Block 50s that were received prior to the start of the war would have had slats.  There are a couple of photos in the chapter on the YKW that show a couple of these slatted aircraft.  So, yes there were a few F-4s with slats in IAF service at the time, but very few.  Retrofitting of the slats was after the war, and the refuel probe was definitely after the war.  Also note that a number of IAF F-4s already had the long Midas 4 gun muzzle, so during YKW there was a mixture of gun muzzles.

[Padubon]

8 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:

 
According to the double ugly book on IAF Phantoms, the first batch of PEACE ECHO IV F-4s were delivered March 1972 - March 1973.  They were Blocks 48 (14)  and 49 (5).  The second batch of 8 were delivered in October/November 1973 and were Block 50s, intermixed with emergency USAF replacements.  The 5 Block 49s and those of the 8 Block 50s that were received prior to the start of the war would have had slats.  There are a couple of photos in the chapter on the YKW that show a couple of these slatted aircraft.  So, yes there were a few F-4s with slats in IAF service at the time, but very few.  Retrofitting of the slats was after the war, and the refuel probe was definitely after the war.  Also note that a number of IAF F-4s already had the long Midas 4 gun muzzle, so during YKW there was a mixture of gun muzzles.

Oh boy!

[aircommando130]

I have both those "Double Ugly" IAF Phantom books....very awesome! But it does generate 

more head scratching!

 

Cheers...Ron

[Padubon]

Nice

[Dave Williams]

Another good book on F-4 operations during the YKW is “Ghosts of Atonement - Israeli F-4 Phantom Operations During the Yom Kippur War”.  It’s a day by day, mission by mission record, with lots of pictures.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Ghosts-Atonement-Israeli-Phantom-Operations/dp/076434756X/ref=sr_1_2?crid=ZKEN55772QGN&dchild=1&keywords=ghosts+of+atonement&qid=1606971075&sprefix=Ghosts+of+at%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-2

[Dave Williams]

On 12/1/2020 at 9:55 PM, aircommando130 said:

Don't know what squadron you were looking at doing but F-4E 109 of 201 squadron 

had 7 air to air kills in the Yom Kippur war. Had the long Midas 4 gun muzzle and the EL 

strip lights on the fuselage/tail.

 

Cheers...Ron

Fun fact, according to the book “Ghosts of Atonement”, Kurnass 109 flew as 609 during the war.  At the time, individual aircraft used a two digit code with a squadron prefix code.  6 was 201 Squadron’s prefix code, so their squadron aircraft 09 was numbered 609.  Unfortunately, three other squadrons (69,107, and 119) all used 1 as a prefix, so there were some duplicates like both 107 and 119 squadron had a Kurnass 141.  The YKM marked 109 was actually a 69 squadron aircraft.

 

To confuse things more, after the war, they redid the prefixes by whether the aircraft had slats or not.  Those without slats used the 1 prefix, and those with slats used the 2 prefix.  So, 201 squadron’s 609 became 109 because it didn’t have slats, and 69 squadron’s 109 became 209 because it had slats.  3 was used for emergency war replacements and 4 was used for the RF-4Es.

 

The book photos show that during the war, 201 Squadron’s “109” (marked 609 during the war) had the short gun muzzle and no light strips.  This was the aircraft that had the 7 kills.

 

The aircraft marked as 109 during the war (and 209 after) was a 69 Squadron aircraft with the long gun muzzle, light strips, and slats.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Dave Williams