RAAF P40E quickly sent to defend Port Moresby, U.S. harness or Sutton?

[mpk]

Hi guys.

 

Ever since I told my 89 year old dad I was going to build a P40 in RAAF colours named Grace, he's been asking me about it. Grace is the name of my niece.

 

So lo and behold I find myself with 2 P40E's. I got a CMK cockpit and canvas wheel bays, as well as an Eduard PE set.

 

I am unsure to use the CMK cockpit with it's seat or kit seat with Sutton? Knowing as I do the urgency these first P40's were diverted from the Dutch to Australia and sent north, did the RAAF bother changing the harness? Was there time?

 

I figure later A/C in Mildura had a Sutton but am unsure.

 

Normally I wouldn't care, but dad's 89. 

 

Dad's a vet and served in the RAN towards the end of the war. Joined up at 14 or 15 or something. (They were taking anyone)

 

I think I need to get my act together!

 

Grace and Grace.

 

 

 

[RBrown]

A29-153 was an a P-40 E-1, USAAF Serial  41-24789 assigned to the RAAF in August of 1942.  The aircraft was named  'Orace' which was painted on both sides of the cowling.  Sergeant Roy Gordon Riddel named the  aircraft in honor of his father Horace Riddel.  The aircraft saw subsequent service with 82 Squadron and 2 OTU.

 

The aircraft would have been equipped with a Sutton harness.

 

 

[mpk]

That is just fantastic!

 

Thank you so very much.

 

So, not Grace. Perhaps I can relax. Shows how good my eyes are.

 

if it's not too much to ask, do you know if the interior green would be something like this:

 

 

Or would it be the more yellow or perhaps even RAF interior green? And would the seat be bare metal?

 

Many many thanks.

Edited April 9, 2017 by mpk

[LDSmodeller]

That is just fantastic!

 

Thank you so very much.

 

So, not Grace. Perhaps I can relax. Shows how good my eyes are.

 

if it's not too much to ask, do you know if the interior green would be something like this:

 

 

Or would it be the more yellow or perhaps even RAF interior green? And would the seat be bare metal?

 

Many many thanks.

The important thing to remember is the -1 was a export aircraft ( 41-24789 was an E-1), therefore built to RAF Spec

 

The Interior colours for P40E-1  Cockpit was RAF Cockpit Green as in this photo link from an RNZAF P40E-1 (US Serials are similar in numeric order) Best colour I've used thus far is Humbrol 80 with a touch of grey Also as mentioned in a previous post above Sutton Harness.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Yff6LKWML1MkM4N2hNckFTbGM/view?usp=sharing

 

The other interior colour was Zinc Chromate Green (Apple Green)

 

Exterior colours are RAF Temperate Land Scheme in DuPont Colours of Dark Earth/dark Green/Duck Egg Blue(Sky Type S)

 

Regards

 

Alan

Edited April 10, 2017 by LDSmodeller

[BradG]

All RAAF P-40's were US built.

[RBrown]

My understanding is that all P-40E-1s were intended for Lend Lease and built to British specifications.  These aircraft were factory painted in the Curtiss version of the RAF Temperate Land scheme using Du Pont equivalents.

 

The majority of these  aircraft were shipped crated and a Sutton harness kit was included.  No factory marking were applied to crated aircraft.  National markings in the form of decals (along with a quart of decal lacquer) were included for Nationalist Chinese, USAAF, and RAF machines

Edited April 10, 2017 by RBrown

[LDSmodeller]

It wasn't built for the RAAF, it was built as a USAAF P-40E-1, so it would have been to USAAF standards.  US harnesses, us colors.

 

Have to disagree

 

P40E-1 was export - the -1 signified "Export"

 

All the P 40E-1's and for that matter even P40Ks built for use in RAF/Commonwealth service had US Serial numbers even if they were assigned RAF serials or not.

 

Since they were Export, depending on where thet would serve, some certainly had some US supplied equipment, such as the

SCR274 Radio system as found in P40E-1's supplied to RNZAF/RAAF - reason being they were serving with USN/USMC/USAAF units in the like of the South Pacific - need to have some common form of communication.

P40E-1's serving in the Middle East would have RAF type radio systems fitted after arrival

The Sutton Harness was fitted on arrival at the RNZAF/RAAF bases/station where the aircraft were assembled.

 

Some P40E-1's were held back for USAAF units (especially in the SW Pacific, due to a shortage of aircraft for USAAF units)

they would already have had the SCR274 radio, and most likely US harnesess for the pilot.

 

Colour wise, cockpit was RAF spec cocpit green (either DiPont or Berry brothers), with other internal colours US Zinc Chromate Green.

Exterior colours, were RAF TLS. Both the 40FG and 68PG/FG serving in the South Pacific flew in RAF TLS colours.

 

These P40E-1's are with (in the photos) RNZAF 15 Squadron Guadacanal circa 1942 after the aircraft had been taken over from the 68PS/FG in Tonga October 1942 colloquially known as "Tonga P40's"

 

P40E-1 NZ3094 (US Serial 41-25109) RAF serial ET433 -

(Photo RNZAF issue, usd for illustration only)

 

P40E-1 NZ3095 (US Serial 41-25139) RAF serial ET463 - Note the RAF TLS Scheme

(Photo RNZAF issue, Used for illustration only)

 

As a further note the surviving "Tonga P0's" arrived back in New Zealand circa 1944 and noted in RNZAF records as having RAF colours (quoted from RNZAF Musum communications)

 

Regards

 

Alan

[LDSmodeller]

My understanding is that all P-40E-1s were intended for Lend Lease and built to British specifications.  These aircraft were factory painted in the Curtiss version of the RAF Temperate Land scheme using Du Pont equivalents.

 

The majority of these  aircraft were shipped crated and a Sutton harness kit was included.  No factory marking were applied to crated aircraft.  National markings in the form of decals (along with a quart of decal lacquer) were included for Nationalist Chinese, USAAF, and RAF machines

 

Have to dsagree about the markings being in the form of decals.

 

The RNZAF P40E-1's and RAAF P40E-1's arrived in crates with the Roundels painted on - can quote DuPont Insignia Numbers

if you like.

 

Regards

 

Alan

[mpk]

Seeing as I have two P40E's, I'll make one a RNZAF bird to accompany the RAAF. It'll look nice when it finally sits beside my Kiwi Corsair.

 

Thanks for all this information everyone. I find it very inspiring. I'm learning so much!

 

Cheers. Dale.

[RBrown]

Have to dsagree about the markings being in the form of decals.

 

The RNZAF P40E-1's and RAAF P40E-1's arrived in crates with the Roundels painted on - can quote DuPont Insignia Numbers

if you like.

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

The more information the better...

 

Incidentally here is a link describing some of the differences between the USAAF P40E-CU and the British Model P40E-1-CU:P-40

Edited April 10, 2017 by RBrown

[Martinnfb]

Interesting discussion guys. I know very little about P-40 exports, however I noticed the heavy chipping on the lower side of the wing, would that mean that this machine was originally painted in US standard OD/MG ?

[Adam]

It all depends on what timeframe you are wanting to built in. The very first deployment to Port Morseby was by 75 Sqn, commanded by the legendary Sqn Ldr John Jackson. These first Kitty's were gifted by the USAAF, so I would strongly suggest that they were fitted out accordingly. There wasn't even time to repaint these Kitty's other than apply RAAF roundels and serial numbers - such was the dire emergency at hand. If you want a good read, look up "44 Days". It covers this first deployment of 75 Sqn and the phenomenal challenge they faced. The conditions were pretty horrific at Moreseby and pretty well all pilots ended up flying with bad gastric conditions - to put it crudely, they were shitting into their flying boots in flight. Most of the pilots were terribly inexperienced - some with only 10 hours on Kittyhawks. Their leader Jackson was a veteran of the fighting in the Western Desert and knew exactly how to fight with the Kitty - get as much height as possible, dive on the bad guys and keep going. Use that energy to climb and repeat. Sadly though due to lack of early warning, 75 Sqn was very rarely able to have the advantage of height. Their principle foe was the Imperial Japanese Navy Zeros - with pilots such as the very experienced and talented Saburo Sakai. Jackson was killed over Port Moresby in combat with Zeros. The night before he had been summoned to HQ in Moresby to discuss "tactics" and been told his squadron was acting like a pack of dingoes (skittish wild dog in Australia) because they would not "dogfight" the Zeros - Jackson of course knowing this would be suicide with his zoom and climb method being the best tactic. The next day, it took three Zeros to kill Jackson with him swear black and blue on the way down. Jackson's brother Les took command of what was left of 75 Sqn and this squadron was later relieved by a USAAF P-39 squadron with 75 returning to Australia for rest and to reequip. 75 went on to do glorious things along with 76 Sqn at the battle of Milne Bay - that's another story! Google RAAF 75 Sqn and Sqn Ldr John Jackson and you will read quite a story. This episode I believe was Australia's version of the Battle of Britain - of course on a much smaller scale, but fought at the same level of intensity and bravery. Couple of years ago I was travelling to a mine in PNG and on return once I took the opportunity to visit Sqn Ldr John Jackson's grave at Bomana War Cemetery in Port Moresby - this was a little adventure in itself!

 

75 Sqn in Queensland - on it's way to Port Moresby .

 

 

Jackson's grave. Port Moresby's International Airport is named after Jackson.

 

 

Here's a photo of ol' John himself. He was pretty "old" for a fighter pilot - 34 when he died. He had been a pretty wealthy pastoralist (farmer) pre-war and even owned a Beech Staggerwing - a aeroplane at the time faster than anything the RAAF had in service! He didn't need to fight given his age. Could of sat on a instructor or desk job in the RAAF, but he chose to fight. He is one of the bravest men I've ever read about.

 

 

Good luck with your build - be it 75, 76 or 77 Sqn you do - heroes all!

 

All the best

 

Adam

[RBrown]

The aircraft is a P-40 E-1 confirmed by its serial number and there is no doubt that it was painted at the factory with Du Pont equivalent paints in the RAF Temperate Land Scheme,  as noted above.  Another clue, if you look closely at the photos,  you can just discern the fuselage formation light beneath the cockpit.  These lights were only on machines built to British order. 

 

As far as the dark spotting on the wing under surface it could possibly be a darker paint employed to touch up wear.  Forward bases were quite remote and personnel did have to deal with supply issues.  So it is conceivable that the aircraft was spot painted with a color darker than that applied at the factory, simply because it was available.     

Edited April 11, 2017 by RBrown

[mpk]

44 days is great.

 

There's an old TV doco on it on Youtube.

 

Great watch.

 

[Martinnfb]

Awesome , thanks for posting.