P-40E Texas Longhorn

[Brian79]

The instructions call out Azure blue for the underside, is this accurate, probably grey?, or impossible to know? Any thoughts appreciated!

[D Bellis]

Who's instructions? 

 

There is a profile floating around dating back to the '80s (or possibly before) showing Azure Blue undersides. Personally, that artist's conclusion seems highly unlikely given the rest of the scheme (DuPont Dark Earth and Dark Green topsides). So, unless there's a color photo of that aircraft showing Azure undersides, then gray would be most likely.

 

D

[LDSmodeller]

The instructions call out Azure blue for the underside, is this accurate, probably grey?, or impossible to know? Any thoughts appreciated!

 

"Texas Longhorn" was (to my understanding) a P40E-1 which was an export aircraft built to British MAP specs, so would have been in RAF TLS (Temperate Land Scheme). The DuPont Colours would have been Dark Earth (71-009) /Dark Green (71-013) /Sky (Duck Egg Blue) being DuPont 71-021 Sky Type S- Grey

 

DuPont 71-021 is not a grey colour in any respect, it is a Duck Egg Blue. The RNZAF received P 40E-1's in early 1942 in the above colours

 

The link below  are the above colours off an RNZAF P40E-1 elevator that crashed circa 1943 in New Zealand (Apologies about the scan, I would take photos close up but moving house, I put them in a safe and secure place, and they are still safe and secure )

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Yff6LKWML1VS00MVFaR04ycjg/view?usp=sharing

 

The scan doesn't do it justice, but the Duck Egg Blue is a very pale Blue with a greenish tinge.

 

You don't mention what paints you are using, but Humbrol have  duck egg blue (Hu 23) that is very close.

 

Hope that helps?

 

Regards

 

Alan

[Brian79]

The kit is the 1/32 Hasegawa version. So it appears that this color is what was on British a/c like the Spitfire, not really a blue at all based on the picture.

[D Bellis]

The link below  are the above colours off an RNZAF P40E-1 elevator that crashed circa 1943 in New Zealand...

However, RNZAF and RAAF aircraft were eventually repainted with local colors (Earth Brown, Foliage Green and Sky Blue). These colors are not what the aircraft was painted with at the factory, and are quite different from the DuPont colors used by Curtiss.

 

Texas Longhorn would have been painted in Curtiss/DuPont colors, not RNZAF or RAAF colors.

 

This site may also be of some use:

http://www.ipmscanada.com/ipms/Reference_%20Article/Aircraft/Aircraft_Page/P40%20Underside%20Colour.html

 

HTH,

D

[waroff]

In the factory drawings, "markings & insignia scheme for P40E", Curtiss gave the equivalent for
brown 71-009
green "  "013
red     " " 007
white   " " 001
bleu   " " 012
yellow  " "010
But not for the "Sky type S", there is any information for this line. It was wrote "undersurfaces" only
Is it possible that the british had furnished these "Sky" paint?

 

 Azure blue (71-062) was specified for "desert camouflage" applied on the p40K only

Edited May 17, 2016 by waroff

[D Bellis]

Is it possible that the british had furnished these "Sky" paint?

Not likely. All of their specifications call for "US Equivalent" colors. 

 

Another relevant discussion on this topic (which includes both DuPont color chips and relic evidence): 

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1271801585 

 

D 

[waroff]

Ok, i'm just intrigued why Curtiss has not gave Du Pont equivalent for Sky color as for the others

Edited May 17, 2016 by waroff

[D Bellis]

Ok, i'm just intrigued why Curtiss has not gave Du Pont equivalent for Sky color as for the others

Agreed. Very interesting that the underside color is not noted on that drawing.

 

Rato's article cites "71-021" for the undersides, based on the references at the bottom of the page:

http://www.ratomodeling.com/articles/AVG_cammo/

 

D

[RBrown]

[LDSmodeller]

However, RNZAF and RAAF aircraft were eventually repainted with local colors (Earth Brown, Foliage Green and Sky Blue). These colors are not what the aircraft was painted with at the factory, and are quite different from the DuPont colors used by Curtiss.

 

Texas Longhorn would have been painted in Curtiss/DuPont colors, not RNZAF or RAAF colors.

 

This site may also be of some use:

http://www.ipmscanada.com/ipms/Reference_%20Article/Aircraft/Aircraft_Page/P40%20Underside%20Colour.html

 

HTH,

D

 

You obviously have access to Highly Classified information that the RAAF or RNZAF does not possess, the Infromation you mention is not found in any of my RNZAF Reference books (especially by those who flew/maintained these aircraft)

 

I am finding it quite annoying that people insist on telling we Kiwi's and Aussies, what our Air Forces aircraft  were/are or looked like and when you read what is posted by these people, you realise the poster has no idea.

 

Do people ever consider that we Commonwealth Forces the "End User" may/do have information not readily available on the net on these things - not that it matters, when we post it, it gets pooh hooed anyway by "others who know better"

 

The colours I posted above, are the colours the aircraft arrived in from the US in 1942, so are correct for colours painted on the aircraft by Curtiss, and are verifiable with the Curtiss document that arrived with the aircraft in 1942. These documents give the DuPont colours top and bottom including the DuPont colours for the Roundel paints used for the RAF Insignia. The RNZAF museum has copies of these documents which gives these colours. Grey or Sky Grey (or any type of grey colour) for the lower colour is not mentioned, but Sky (Duck Egg Blue) is.

 

Those repaints you speak of occured much later, and for RNZAF aircraft nothing like you mention.

 

Of Interest Texas Long Horn has the RAF code ET600. The aircraft from which the DuPont swatches are from NZ3031, had the RAF serial ET770.

 

Incidently I have a copy of an British AMO A.926. Aircraft Colouring and Recognition Markings dated 12.12.40,   states that all RAF aircraft "Including American and Allied types in use by British Air Forces" were to be camouflaged on the undersurfaces in Duck Egg Blue (Sky Type S). When the Minsitry of Aircraft Production placed orders with the likes of Curtiss, Duckegg Blue was to be the undersides - not eqivalent colours, those came later.

 

If you want to read properly researched information on this I suggest contacting Nick Millman on Britmodeller.

 

Regards

 

Alan

[D Bellis]

You obviously have access to Highly Classified information that the RAAF or RNZAF does not possess, 

It is all posted right here in this thread by myself and others. Take it or leave it. 

 

D

[Brian79]

Ok, so if I understand correctly the sky blue color is correct for this application? Almost seems like RLM76 ish type blue.

[D Bellis]

Ok, so if I understand correctly the sky blue color is correct for this application? Almost seems like RLM76 ish type blue.

No, DuPont "Sky Type S Gray 71-021". A sample of which can be sen in the bottom left of the image posted by RBrown above. 

 

HTH,

D

[LDSmodeller]

 

 

No, DuPont "Sky Type S Gray 71-021". A sample of which can be sen in the bottom left of the image posted by RBrown above. 

 

HTH,

D

Brian 79

 

If you  look at the image i posted, the lower Blue Colour (and it is blue) is DuPont 71-021 Duck Egg Blue aka Sky Type S- grey.

Irrespective what has posted above.

 

Bottom line is we Kiwi's and Aussies had aircraft delivered in 1942, from RAF Stock in the US. Curtiss Documents arriving with the aircraft give the DuPont colours INCLUDING DuPont 71-021 Sky Type S-Grey.

None of our P 40E-1's (especially RNZAF) were repainted on arrival - more mythical nonsense.

 

Texas longhorn was part of the British order, taken back by the USAAF due to aircraft shortage. I have shown that both the RAF serials between Texas Longhorn and mine (NZ3031) were not too far apart

 

Good luck with your build

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

PS I would, if you are serious about this, look up Nick millman on Britmodeller, surprisngly Nick's comment will echo mine on DuPont Sky Type S- Grey.

 

Remember it's your model

Edited May 19, 2016 by LSP_Ray
Removed personal attack.