Trumpeter Stuka correction set

[brian-f]

Hi Guys,

I am finally able to tell you that I have the correction set completed and on sale at my web site.

The set corrects the nose shape, the prop/spinner with optional blade types and the undercarriage spat shape.

This has taken longer than expected to bring out but I hope you feel it is worth the time and effort.

The instructions are available on my web site @ http://www.fawcettmodelsandpatterns.co.uk/

I realise that the set is so easy to use that the majority of LSP'ers won't need to use instructions but I put them up incase any beginers try the set.

Thank's for looking.

Brian.

[brian-f]

Hi,<br />The missing letters in the email address above are "elsand"<br />Sorry about this, I have maybe done something wrong with my post.<br />Brian.

[thierry laurent]

Ok!

 

This will be on the top of my September purchase list! :-)

[nmayhew]

Brian,

I sent you an email this afternoon...

Nicholas

[LSP_Kevin]

I've just moved your thread here to the Vendors Board Brian, where it more appropriately belongs.

 

Hi,<br />The missing letters in the email address above are "elsand"<br />Sorry about this, I have maybe done something wrong with my post.<br />Brian.

 

The link itself is correct; the forum software merely truncates the text that represents the link. It does this automatically when the link text is too long, so you've done nothing wrong!

 

Kev

[brian-f]

Thank's Kevin for sorting me out.

Cheers,

Brian.

[Derek B]

Nice work Brian

 

Derek

[Guest KingK_series]

Nice work Brian

 

Derek

 

 

The shape of the oil cooler duct flap is completely wrong for a B2

 

- on a B1 the flap followed the curve of the top of the cowl, as in this correction kit?

 

- but on the B2 it's a much more complicated shape with a concave curve at the short edges .....

[nmayhew]

King K,

 

Would you care to provide some photos to illustrate please?

 

Nick

[Hagar]

Ordered mine as soon as I saw it. Looking forward to this.

James

[brian-f]

KingK_series, on 24 Aug 2013 - 15:17, said:

The shape of the oil cooler duct flap is completely wrong for a B2

 

- on a B1 the flap followed the curve of the top of the cowl, as in this correction kit?

 

- but on the B2 it's a much more complicated shape with a concave curve at the short edges .....

Hi KingK,

I can see on some photos what you mean but others show it as the resin part is, but when researching the nose I did find three quite different shapes to the top of the cowl.

If the particular subject being built has the slight curve on top of the oil cooler it would be a very quick and simple matter to round the top edges and flap, the resin is thick enough in those areas.

Cheers,

Brian.

[Guest KingK_series]

Hi KingK,

I can see on some photos what you mean but others show it as the resin part is, but when researching the nose I did find three quite different shapes to the top of the cowl.

If the particular subject being built has the slight curve on top of the oil cooler it would be a very quick and simple matter to round the top edges and flap, the resin is thick enough in those areas.

Cheers,

Brian.

 

 

Hi Brian

 

 

its not the cowl that's in question Brian

 

the B1 and B2 cowls are completely different, B1 has no fairing for the lower engine mount, its shorter as well as the obvious differences of rad inlet below spinner and depth for rad etc etc, exhausts, etc

 

 

However the oil cooler remained the same for both types, what is different is the flap that opens behind the rad - in the B1 it is a simple shape which follows the cowl, on the B2 its an s shape with a concave curve at each side - clearly designed to reduce flow through the rad when the flap is closed - remember in a dive the oil and water will get so much cooling that they over cool the engine, hence the water coolant rad louvres, which were closed just before the aircraft nosed over, and opened as the plane recovers from the dive - managing engine temperatures is critical for engine life - look how many problems F1 cars have on the grid if sat there for more than seconds - they have no fans, conversely the inlet ducts change from race to race depending on how much of the track is spent at full throttle - and F1 engines only do 200km. - Military engines need to last and be as reliable as long as possible - I'll post some pics as soon as I can

 

the biggest problems with the nose in the kit are;-

 

that it is slightly too short

 

the rad bath is the wrong shape,

 

the rad gills are really complicated on the B2

 

the gills have delicate actuators that run through a very carefull ducting on the inside of the rad duct that closes right up to the back of the radiator, completely missing in the Trumpeter kit

 

the oil cooler intake on the top of the cowl is a very complicated asymmetrical shape, made of two panels riveted together, that is wrong on the kit - too small at the mouth and wrong shape.

 

I cannot see clearly your parts in relation to all these faults in the Trumpeter kit parts - however I maintain, with the obvious need to replace the prop and spinner, which alone almost correct the kit's deficiency in overall length - at least to a point where the OOB kit is on a par with most kits and enormously better than others - especially some of the resin kits out there, that the kit can be made into a perfectly nice OOB + prop replacement model - as beautifully demonstrated by Tigger's rendering a while ago - ! - and I am bewildered by some of the formal reviews - which I believe are unduely harsh, especially when the same reviewer has completely missed an inaccuracy of 4mm in wingspan and 6mm in overall fuselage length in one of the resin kits he has given a sparklingly good review -

 

 

To go further is an enormous effort in research and very considerable work - to change for instance the shape of the oil cooler intake - massive job to get that right because it is so subtle and that requires massive research - just making the mouth bigger is only a tiny part of the issue -

 

 

best wishes simon

Edited August 26, 2013 by KingK_series

[brian-f]

Hi Simon,

I completely agree that the whole cowl on the early B1 and B2 were quite different, but looking through the fairly large collection of photos that I gathered for this project, I cannot find a photo that has the oil cooler flap that looks as you describe it.

Of the ones that I have, I can see three different oil cooler flap shapes, The first and least common one has rounded edges at each side and a convex curve on top. The second most common is the square cornered flat top one which is the one in the resin correction and the third one the looks very much like second but with a very siight convex curve on top of the tailing edge.

The second and third ones are so close that a few seconds with a sanding stick would give the third.

I do keep in mind that the oil cooler flap is very difficult to see in the majority of photos, so I'm not saying that you are wrong but that I don't have a photo showing what you describe.

I understand what you are saying about over cooling the engine but do think that the reason for closing the radiator and oil cooler flaps would be far more likey be to stop buffeting and stop them being ripped off the aircraft than to stop over cooling.

Although very important, I don't think the time that the aircraft would be in the dive would be likely to cause the tempertures to drop to a dangerous level after all these engines were built to a much lower tolerence than a modern aircraft engine let alone an F1 engine that is put together with a tolerance that would make watchmaker green with envy.

The intake and outlet sizes on the real aircraft were rather out of balance to work well, the outlet should be considerably larger than the inlet to work efficiently, 1 to 3 I believe is the optimum proportion.

That could explain why the flap was curved on top to increase the volume of air as the more powerfull engine was fitted to the B2.

Quite a large number of B1's became B2's during servicing when all the mods were done, this may be another factor in the different oil cooler flap shapes.

I have to disagree with you about the nose shape being reasonable, the oil cooler intake/exit and main radiator bath being obviously totally wrong but also the thrust line is way off and the exhaust position incorrect. The nose is too narrow and too short and lastly the diameter of the area behind the spinner back plate is about 2mm too small. Once these have been put right, you don't have a lot of the kit nose left.

Again I'm not saying that you are incorrect with your comments about the shape of some oil cooler flaps but I feel quite happy with the resin nose shape espesially when compared to enlarged photo's

Cheers,

Brian.

[Guest KingK_series]

Hi Simon,

I completely agree that the whole cowl on the early B1 and B2 were quite different, but looking through the fairly large collection of photos that I gathered for this project, I cannot find a photo that has the oil cooler flap that looks as you describe it.

Of the ones that I have, I can see three different oil cooler flap shapes, The first and least common one has rounded edges at each side and a convex curve on top. The second most common is the square cornered flat top one which is the one in the resin correction and the third one the looks very much like second but with a very siight convex curve on top of the tailing edge.

The second and third ones are so close that a few seconds with a sanding stick would give the third.

I do keep in mind that the oil cooler flap is very difficult to see in the majority of photos, so I'm not saying that you are wrong but that I don't have a photo showing what you describe.

I understand what you are saying about over cooling the engine but do think that the reason for closing the radiator and oil cooler flaps would be far more likey be to stop buffeting and stop them being ripped off the aircraft than to stop over cooling.

Although very important, I don't think the time that the aircraft would be in the dive would be likely to cause the tempertures to drop to a dangerous level after all these engines were built to a much lower tolerence than a modern aircraft engine let alone an F1 engine that is put together with a tolerance that would make watchmaker green with envy.

The intake and outlet sizes on the real aircraft were rather out of balance to work well, the outlet should be considerably larger than the inlet to work efficiently, 1 to 3 I believe is the optimum proportion.

That could explain why the flap was curved on top to increase the volume of air as the more powerfull engine was fitted to the B2.

Quite a large number of B1's became B2's during servicing when all the mods were done, this may be another factor in the different oil cooler flap shapes.

I have to disagree with you about the nose shape being reasonable, the oil cooler intake/exit and main radiator bath being obviously totally wrong but also the thrust line is way off and the exhaust position incorrect. The nose is too narrow and too short and lastly the diameter of the area behind the spinner back plate is about 2mm too small. Once these have been put right, you don't have a lot of the kit nose left.

Again I'm not saying that you are incorrect with your comments about the shape of some oil cooler flaps but I feel quite happy with the resin nose shape espesially when compared to enlarged photo's

Cheers,

Brian.

 

 

Brian

 

I have 27 reference books on the JU87, I have complete manuals, and lots pics from Flickr, and ebay, I have just spent the last hour going through them all

 

 

here is the pic you ask for of the sole type of B2 oil cooler flap that I can find in the thousands of images -

 

hope this works, everybody I apologise for not being able to post the pic directly, I will edit this and post a lot more as soon as I can sort a new keyboard

 

- but for now ;-

 

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/SimonErland/media/L1080609_zps5c9a5085.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

 

- hope that works

 

 

 

no where on a B2 can I find a flap different to this in the pic -

 

remember there were hardly any B2 or R2s made, only 225 B2s before production went over to the D

- there were thousands of B1's made with 3 modified cowls.

 

 

- are you mistaking the "other shapes " for a B1? most pics of Ju87s are B1 or D/G.

 

- I'd love to see the pics with the flaps you see, but anyway in every pic of a B2 that I possess where you can clearly see the oil cooler flap, this this in the pic is the design I see on the B2 and it's quite different to the shapes you describe which sound like B1s to me

 

- really love to see the pics you talk about because that would settle this at a stroke, and am only too happy to be pointed up just plain wrong, because the research is 70% of the fun of modeling in my books -

 

An engine takes seconds to over heat or overcool if the cooling is wrong, and believe me its not a question of the thing going bang! its a question of the damage done reducing total engine life, - the manual and many a JU87 biography talk about the procedure to shut the rad before the pilot goes into a dive to stop over cooling - I thought that would be well known -

 

- cheaply or mass produced engines are much more susceptible to cooling issues than blueprinted engines - and Jumos were famous for being badly made, especially in comparison to DBs.

 

 

I think it would be very difficult to have an outlet 3 times the inlet size - in fact the rad out duct is usually the means of controlling flow, to get efficient flow you need a small inlet that opens IN FRONT OF THE RAD to a larger x - sectional area, that way you get high pressure induction, but low pressure just before the rad matrix which is what you want, but resistance - ie drag and therefore load will always be higher if you stop air moving through -

 

 

 

- not sure what you mean by 'thrust line totally wrong" - if you mean the oil cooler intake is open more on the aircraft near side ???? you are correct - but so is the kit - its not a really accurate shape, its too small, the panel lines are absent, but its no more inaccurate than......... the cowling in front of the cockpit of an Azur 1/32 Hawk 75A, or a Hasegawa 1/32 FW190 A8 armament cowl, or the fuselage behind the cockpit on a Tamiya 1/32 Spitfire IXc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

 

 

And you are correct the nose is too narrow - actually its too pointed, and the spinner back is too small .... yep correct - just as the wing profile on an Azur 1/32 Bloch 151 is completely wrong, The Eduard 1/32 Bf109 wing is too wide at the root, the fuselage behind the cockpit is not straight enough, the Revell 1/32 Ju88 stabiliser is too narrow and the rudder too shallow - please don't get me on to the resin kits which ought to be better researched.......- so .... show me one kit that can't be made more accurate...?

 

but that surely is why we do Large Scale Planes rather than 1/48 .... to make them more detailed and accurate, - that's my take - but I still would want to diminish the pleasure anyone has in the fun of building ANY kit OOB - or diminish the effort any manufacturer makes to bring ANY kit to the market.

 

and I refer again to Tiggers beautiful Trumpeter 1/32 Ju87 which attracted so much admiration on this thread.

 

 

- to my mind much of the criticism of this particular kit has come about because of one on line review - and I really think that review is harsh by comparison to the same individuals reviews of some of the very expensive resin kit reviews he's done where the kits are waaaaaaaaaaaaay off being any where near dimensionally accurate..

 

and so its ............. snowballed

Edited August 26, 2013 by KingK_series

[nmayhew]

The mistakes in the kit have been discussed here on LSP - we all know that.

 

Writing essay length posts about compound curves and technical blah is cool (honestly I do think it is), but all rather redundant if no pictures are posted to support / refute etc etc

 

Simon I know you said you had computer issues but I am not sure I see the point of diving in saying stuff is wrong on the correction set when 1 you don't have it 2 you can't post pictures accordingly

 

I think Brian has been much more sporting than I would have been it was my upgrade set