Where to find flat rigging wire for 32nd Golden age Bi planes P-12

[oyoy5]

Other than ortho wire , can you find flat wire at a hardware or craft store? What would be the correct diameter as well.

[Out2gtcha]

Other than ortho wire , can you find flat wire at a hardware or craft store? What would be the correct diameter as well.

 

Our own Radu B offers some nice brit streamlined wire:

1/32 British Streamline Wire - 2BA

 

 

1/32 British Streamline Wire - 4BA

 

 

 

HTH, Cheers

[Out2gtcha]

Almost forgot...............

 

I use this stuff all the time, and it does replicate flat wire well, as this stuff stretches unbelievably. The "large" size of EZ line is very flat and just have to be carful not to twist it. Works AWESOME for rigging -

 

EZ Line

[wunwinglow]

I've just picked up a reel of Cortland Zip Flat Running Line 50lb grade, a monofilament fishing line, which is a nice oval section. It isn't exactly bar straight though, so am trying out some methods of stretching/heating it so get the slight wiggles out of it. I don't know if I can glue it and paint it yet either, but I'll keep you posted. It is available in several smaller sizes too, apparently.

 

Tim P

[radial]

.015 stiff steel wire available in most LHS. See "Rigging Method" in the Tips and Tech section.

[Tnarg]

I have been looking for this for a very long time and am not satisfied with any of the alternatives I have seen so far. After quite a few false starts, thinking the dimensions of the threads were the dimensions of the wire width, I finally found out the real deal.

 

The wire is referred to as British or American Standard Streamline Wire. One website still selling this (in full scale) is: http://www.streamlin...m/standards.htm

 

You can see the full list of wires along with their specifications at that site. They call out British and American Standards.

 

The American Standard Streamline Wire is referred to by the dimensions of the attachment threads. I put together a table of the dimensions and their equivalent in 1/32 scale:

 

Threads Width Thickness (1/32 scale)

 

1/2" - 20 0.0229" 0.006"

7/16" - 20 0.0199" 0.005"

3/8" - 24 0.0169" 0.044"

5/16" - 24 0.0138" 0.0036"

1/4" - 28 0.0109" 0.0028"

 

The key thing to note with all of these possibilities is that they didn't use that many different wires. The Aerofax book on the P-26 shows (on the back cover) that the wider wires were 1/2" and the secondary smaller wires were 3/8". These would be about 0.023" and 0.017" wide in 1/32 scale, and would look almost perfect if made from 0.005" thick metal by photo etching. They are steel wires.

 

The Gee Bee and others of the Williams Brothers' kits likely used similar wire dimensions. I have checked into some of the other planes' rigging specifications and see that the P-12E and F4B-4 used 1/2" wires everywhere except for the tail rigging which was 5/16". I am pretty confident that most of the wiring on the Sparrowhawks and BF2C (Haswegawa) and almost every other 30's biplane in the USA had 1/2" wiring in almost all locations.

 

I have tried to find flat wire matching these dimensions, and many wire companies list that they can do this. However, none seem to be interested in setting up to make even a few hundred dollar run. So far, none of the photo etch companies are doing these wider wires; only Radhu has the smaller British Standard wires.

 

DougN did a great F4B-4 build along with an amazing save: http://forum.largesc...showtopic=38413

He used flat dental wire. I looked for this but couldn't find matching wire to the specs of American Standard above, nor find an easy way to buy some.

 

I checked out the lengths of almost all of the biplanes I could find and see that most of the rigging lengths are on the order of 3" to 5" in total length. I believe that a photo etch fret with a few tens of these, most at 0.023" wide (1/2") with a few at 0.017" (3/8") would do almost any biplane. Throw in a few 5/16" at 0.014" wide all on a 0.005" thick piece of stainless and you would have all the wire you need for any of the available biplanes.

 

I had considered that the end could even taper down to a small diameter for a short length and that could be inserted into some tubing to represent the end of the turnbuckle that you can sometimes see on a few planes.

 

I am playing with this in Corel Draw, and was thinking of doing a few sheets for myself. I have done things with Fotocut before, but most often his stuff is done on a rubber-like material backing instead of like Eduard's with a fret around the parts. This won't be ideal if we bend the wire taking in off the backing. I will have to contact him again to explore other alternatives.

 

Is anyone else up to create this? or should I go ahead with this?

 

Does anyone have any good experiences with photoetching contractors they could recommend?

 

If I did this, does anyone else out there want photo etch sheets of this wire? (or am I the only nut case with AMS).

 

I have been too distracted for too long, but with Mike West's new interiors for the F4B-4 (adaptable to P-12E), P-26 and the new Sparrowhawk, I am ready to build some more of these kits. I have been stuck with other details of the P-26, but am ready to move on the wire. I am not really interested in doing this to sell, but for my own rather large stash of biplanes. I would be open to making more if others really want the wiring.

 

Any comments or suggestions?

 

Tnarg

Edited September 14, 2012 by Tnarg

[wunwinglow]

It is difficult to get enough strain into the metal wires, as wire or etchings, to keep them straight. Nothing looks worse than wobbly rigging! That said, this nylon fishing line is pretty tough too, and I am a bit worried the material will return to its original length after I've stretched it, and pull free or worse, collapse the model!!

 

What we REALLY need is a soft elastic monofiliment, preferably self coloured, that doesn't need much strain on it to keep it straight, so doesn't pull too hard on the structure. Extruded in several sizes. That sticks well with modelmaking glues, doesn't fade, harden or crumble in UV light, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg!!

 

I've not found it yet.... But I'm looking!

[Out2gtcha]

I have been looking for this for a very long time and am not satisfied with any of the alternatives I have seen so far. After quite a few false starts, thinking the dimensions of the threads were the dimensions of the wire width, I finally found out the real deal.

 

The wire is referred to as British or American Standard Streamline Wire. One website still selling this (in full scale) is: http://www.streamlin...m/standards.htm

 

You can see the full list of wires along with their specifications at that site. They call out British and American Standards.

 

The American Standard Streamline Wire is referred to by the dimensions of the attachment threads. I put together a table of the dimensions and their equivalent in 1/32 scale:

 

Thread Size Nominal Width in Inches Minimum Thickness in Inches Maximum Thickness in Inches Width in 1/32 Scale in Inches Thickness in 1/32 Scale in Inches 6-40 UNF 0.192" 0.048" 0.050" 0.0060 0.0016 10-32 UNF 0.256" 0.064" 0.067" 0.0080 0.0021 1/4"-28 UNF 0.348" 0.087" 0.091" 0.0109 0.0028 5/16"-24 UNF 0.440" 0.110" 0.116" 0.0138 0.0036 3/8"-24 UNF 0.540" 0.135" 0.142" 0.0169 0.0044 7/16"-20 UNF 0.636" 0.159" 0.165" 0.0199 0.0050 1/2"-20 UNF 0.732" 0.183" 0.192" 0.0229

0.0060

 

The key thing to note with all of these possibilities is that they didn't use that many different wires. The Aerofax book on the P-26 shows (on the back cover) that the wider wires were 1/2" and the secondary smaller wires were 3/8". These would be about 0.023" and 0.017" wide in 1/32 scale, and would look almost perfect if made from 0.005" thick metal by photo etching. They are steel wires.

 

The Gee Bee and others of the Williams Brothers' kits likely used similar wire dimensions. I have checked into some of the other planes' rigging specifications and see that the P-12E and F4B-4 used 1/2" wires everywhere except for the tail rigging which was 5/16". I am pretty confident that most of the wiring on the Sparrowhawks and BF2C (Haswegawa) and almost every other 30's biplane in the USA had 1/2" wiring in almost all locations.

 

I have tried to find flat wire matching these dimensions, and many wire companies list that they can do this. However, none seem to be interested in setting up to make even a few hundred dollar run. So far, none of the photo etch companies are doing these wider wires; only Radhu has the smaller British Standard wires.

 

DougN did a great F4B-4 build along with an amazing save: http://forum.largesc...showtopic=38413

He used flat dental wire. I looked for this but couldn't find matching wire to the specs of American Standard above, nor find an easy way to buy some.

 

I checked out the lengths of almost all of the biplanes I could find and see that most of the rigging lengths are on the order of 3" to 5" in total length. I believe that a photo etch fret with a few tens of these, most at 0.023" wide (1/2") with a few at 0.017" (3/8") would do almost any biplane. Throw in a few 5/16" at 0.014" wide all on a 0.005" thick piece of stainless and you would have all the wire you need for any of the available biplanes.

 

I had considered that the end could even taper down to a small diameter for a short length and that could be inserted into some tubing to represent the end of the turnbuckle that you can sometimes see on a few planes.

 

I am playing with this in Corel Draw, and was thinking of doing a few sheets for myself. I have done things with Fotocut before, but most often his stuff is done on a rubber-like material backing instead of like Eduard's with a fret around the parts. This won't be ideal if we bend the wire taking in off the backing. I will have to contact him again to explore other alternatives.

 

Is anyone else up to create this? or should I go ahead with this?

 

Does anyone have any good experiences with photoetching contractors they could recommend?

 

If I did this, does anyone else out there want photo etch sheets of this wire? (or am I the only nut case with AMS).

 

I have been too distracted for too long, but with Mike West's new interiors for the F4B-4 (adaptable to P-12E), P-26 and the new Sparrowhawk, I am ready to build some more of these kits. I have been stuck with other details of the P-26, but am ready to move on the wire. I am not really interested in doing this to sell, but for my own rather large stash of biplanes. I would be open to making more if others really want the wiring.

 

Any comments or suggestions?

 

Tnarg

 

Radu does make the British streamlined wire, unless I missed that in your post already...........

 

Our own Radu B offers some nice brit streamlined wire:

1/32 British Streamline Wire - 2BA

 

 

1/32 British Streamline Wire - 4BA

 

 

 

HTH, Cheers

[Out2gtcha]

It is difficult to get enough strain into the metal wires, as wire or etchings, to keep them straight. Nothing looks worse than wobbly rigging! That said, this nylon fishing line is pretty tough too, and I am a bit worried the material will return to its original length after I've stretched it, and pull free or worse, collapse the model!!

 

What we REALLY need is a soft elastic monofiliment, preferably self coloured, that doesn't need much strain on it to keep it straight, so doesn't pull too hard on the structure. Extruded in several sizes. That sticks well with modelmaking glues, doesn't fade, harden or crumble in UV light, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg!!

 

I've not found it yet.... But I'm looking!

 

Used this stuff on my ZM SPAD and worked (as it always does) to perfection. This is the smaller width of the two that EZ line comes in:

 

 

 

Check here:

 

 

Almost forgot...............

 

I use this stuff all the time, and it does replicate flat wire well, as this stuff stretches unbelievably. The "large" size of EZ line is very flat and just have to be carful not to twist it. Works AWESOME for rigging -

 

EZ Line

 

EZ line will NOT sag, takes well to paint and glue, stretches 7 times its own length, comes in various colors and ITS FLAT. The larger size is noticably flat, and the width of the wire can be varied by how much stretch is put into it.............which is A LOT.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Out2gtcha

[wunwinglow]

OK, I'll look it out. The last stuff I saw under that label was not flat by any means, so perhaps that was the thinner grade. I'm still looking for something about 0.5mm wide and 0.1mm thick for the flying wires on my Swordfish. Anything round is just going to look wrong....

 

I just checked and the thicker line seems to start at 0.006" which is way too thin for my model by a factor of 4. Looks like it might be useful on smaller models though, and your aerial on the A-1 looks spot on!!

 

Tim P

Edited September 14, 2012 by wunwinglow