F4-E IDF

[Tomcat Fanatic]

Hallo boys and GIRLS !

 

My next model will be F-4E 1/32 from Israelis IDF AF, Yom kippur war! ( any experts on IDF in here ??? )

I have the revell F-4F Will have Eduard PE and aires Exhaust in 14 days and CAM decals 32083 i want to build Mig killer, and i have few Q??? on that topic!

1.can F-4F be made in to early F-4E ?

2. Did israelis Phantom had slated or nonslated stabilisators

 

I did read article about revell F4f wild horse, so know some stuff about that model!

What are your sugestions?/ commenst/

 

 

take care

[Menelaos]

Tomcat,

 

ALL E models had/have slated stabies. You have to find the slatted stabies of Revells E model ....

 

The Israelis had at the beginning their F-4E carrier the early version that means short gun muzzle (no MIDAS 4 fairing) and no leading edge extentions slats under the main wing and outer wing (the Revell E/F are the later versions). But if you can find the RF-4C outer wings no problem. The Israelis did have later the L edge Versions of the Phantom.

 

The cockpits were the same...

 

M.

[Paul Stoner]

The IDF had some of both slatted and non slatted Phantoms but most of the F-4Es from the states came to them with the slats. I will look around the shop to see if I have any old Revell kit parts laying around with outer wing tips. Take a look at my article on this site of the IDF F-4E Yom Kippur Phantom for some ideas. If your building the Revell/Ger kit than the good Doc here is the right man to talk to. Have a great build.

 

Paul

[thierry laurent]

OK!

 

I'm not a Phantom expert but here's a kind of nitpicker tweaks list I made to convert my Revell F-4F into a F-4E. There other faulty areas to correct but they're either too difficult to modify or not really noticeable! - According to the F-4E block, you may have to add antennas on fin, top fuselage, etc. Be also cautious with regard to weapons as Phantoms were by no means cabled as current fighters. This block could use LGB but not this one, this one had the TISEO but not this one and so on!

 

Here's the different Echo types (extract from an old web page I saved):

 

1. Leadnose. These were the first 66-XXX tails, delivered in 1968, before the AN/APQ-120 radars were ready. Useful only for basic F-4 flying training and some gunnery, they eventually were transferred to the THUNDERBIRDS demonstration team.

 

2. Plain Vanilla. These 66,67, 68 and some 69 models drew the bulk of the Vietnam War assignments until the TISEOs came along. Those that had been in PACAF had armor plates attached to many underside panels and access doors.

3. TISEO jets. After 1972, all new jets ( 71 - 76 series ) had a TV tracker installed in the leading edge of the left wing. TISEOs also had leading-edge slats ( small, movable winglets ) and wing fences built in. This slowed down the top speed considerably, but supposedly improved low-speed handling.

 

4. Pave Spike. While any F-4 could launch TV and laser-guided weapons, the first ones required another plane to illuminate the target. Pave Spike pods were only slightly larger than an AIM-7 missile, and could be loaded on a forward AIM-7 station. It provided a good TV picture of the target, and could laser-illuminate anything it tracked. These jets were all 67- and 68- models, and had their ASQ-91 analog bombing computer upgraded to the ASQ-91B.

 

5. ARNIE jets. Many 69- and 70-models had their reliable Inertial Navigation (ASN-46) and Bombing systems (ASQ-91) gutted, only to be replaced by a kluge digital system called AN/ARN-101. While it was excellent at navigating, it made a very poor bomber. ( Major software errors which the contractor couldn't/wouldn't fix, even when shown what to fix, and how to fix it ! ) ARNie jets were capable of carrying the absolutely huge PAVE TACK pod, which performed the same sort of tracking and laser illumination as the much smaller and realistic Pave Spike. PAVE TACK also had the capability for real-time data link of reconnaisance TV transmission to ground commanders - though it is doubtful that this feature was ever really used.

Wild Weasels. A number of 69-7XXX tail-numbered F-4Es had their guns removed and the rather large cavity packed with ECM gear, to become F-4Gs. There were other modifications as well, so that most of the weapons systems on board became integrated with the EW equipment.

 

Here's the general modifications list:

 

- do not use the radar (only used by upgraded ICE F-4F)

- do not use AMRAAM missiles

- do not use AIM-9L missiles for early F-4E (if you want Winders, use Cutting Edge AIM-9E)

- change nose profile (too tapered and pointy) or use RC resin nose

- replace pitot tube (too short)

- fill steps molded on right side of the nose

- add the diagonal brace in the nose left side vent

- turn the drivers control column (part 10) through 180 degrees as it is depicted the wrong way round

- fit part 189 directly onto the bridge (part 74) not the control panel as suggested in the instructions

- the cockpit floor is a bit too low (more particularly the rear tub) and packing is needed beneath each seat to bring them up above the cockpit sill

- add cockpit sidewalls detail and change instruments into analogical ones (more particularly in the rear pit) or use Legends resin cockpit (or Verlinden F-4D one for a Nam era E bird)!

- seats depict Mk-GH7A3 German Martin Bakers rather than Mk-H7AF ones but this is not too noticeable (weight adjustment on the left front side of the seat, different barometric seat separation device, browner and smaller personnel cannister, different harness, rubberized cable lower ejection handle rather than metal oneas on the E, etc;)

- the splitter plates have a hollow rear face when it should be solid, use plastic card to fill the void

- check with scale plans access panel lines on the side of the intake trunks as they have several errors

- add hydraulic lines & servicing connectors, structural formers, refuel control panel (right MLG) and comm panel (left MLG) in landing gear bays

- open auxiliary air doors on the belly on either side of the centerline rack and detail the insides (very nasty job, believe me!)

- the little triangular NACA intake forward of the right side auxiliary air door does not exist! It should be a protruding antenna!

- replace ouboard wing parts with RF-4 parts or modify them into unslatted parts (I did it but this is a very lengthy and nasty job)

- move holes for the inboard pylons as they are supposed to line up with the rib that runs through each MLG wheel well

- fill RAT doors on both sides (on rear top of the intake trunks) as F-4Es don't have a RAT and NO F-4 had these doors on the right side. On the left side fill the middle line that runs front to back. The two doors for the RAT were changed to one large panel, and this area was used to house a receiver-processor for the RHAW on the F-4E.

- do not use weigthed tires!!!

- use slotted stabilators (nasty issue! as there's no aftermarket ones for the Revell kit! There're various options: Monogram parts, Cutting Edge parts from a Tamiya conversion set, stabilators from old Revell F-4E but slats are ugly or Flightpath F-4E detailing set)

- fill Sparrow wells slots if you do not use missiles. If you use missiles, move rear slots!

- put a little decal inside the little window that goes on the right fuselage above the nozzles (tail hook dashpot gauge)

- detail exhausts with photoetched parts or replace them with Aires or Cam sets

- engrave missing panel lines (panel 106R) on the right side just aft of the stabililator pivot assembly

- fill access panel lines on the vertical fin right side (the round panels and the one just under the fin cap)

 

This is a long post but I think it will be useful!

 

HTH

[Derek B]

Tomcat Fanatic,

 

Good luck with your IDF F-4E. On a casual basis, I am looking for an old/scrap F-4C/D to convert into a British Phantom (but keep it a secret, just in case any WWII types are listening! )

 

Regards

 

Derek

[Tomcat Fanatic]

THX on info, but you did scare the hell out of me with that looong list of things to fix.

I think i wont start that project so soon!

[Menelaos]

Naaaa NO GUTS NO GLORY!

[Tomcat Fanatic]

Yea, but im gona build it anyway! The right or the wrong way, as long as it looks like phantom, there is no trouble!

[phantom]

I used the Tamiya F4 C/D kit for starters. I then purchased about 3 conversions from cutting edge to convert my c/d to an e version. It was a lot of work but it sure looks great. It may not be totally accurate but I love it. Good luck on your project.

Mike

[Menelaos]

look here look here one more Phantomaniac!

 

Where are you guys, I have to "fight" here alone against all those prop jokies!

 

(no no that was a joke, prop guys are allright...)

[thierry laurent]

Ahah!

 

Build it OOTB if you like! It will still look like a Phantom!

 

I just think it may be useful to know what MAY be corrected...-)

 

[Hacker]

derek what a easy british phantom conversion? Do a F-4J (UK)

 

hacker