Menelaos Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 concerning the G-type prop and looking at the pics below...I'm wondering.... these are pics of the 8673...the ac had the W Nr on the fin, but looking at the one pic with Marseille, there is no W Nr at all...the 100 Kills marks is but visible on the fin.... On the big photo the prop is typical F type and not the later G-type!.... Now I need some experten here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menelaos Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 on the other hand I read at the sheet of lifelike decals that the 8573 had the G typ prop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMaben Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 The top photo looks like a G type to me. Fs were pointier at the tip. I'd go with the color profile at the bottom of that page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBrown Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) I believe that Life-Like Decals is in error regarding the prop. W.Nr. 8673 had the VDM 9-12010 prop, common to most Bf 109 F-4s. F-1 and F-2 production typically used the VDM 9-11207 and the Gustav employed the VDM 9-12159A or VDM 9-12087A. The Werknummer is visible (faintly) on better copies of the photograph... 8673 was an Erla production machine completed in November 1941 and delivered to JG 27 in the late summer of 1942. It's history prior to delivery is unknown other that at some point it received a low demarcation repainting. Other identifying traits are the brush painted fuselage crosses, lack of over head armour, and no supplemental windscreen armour. Edited April 27, 2018 by RBrown Menelaos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menelaos Posted April 27, 2018 Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) I believe that Life-Like Decals is in error regarding the prop. W.Nr. 8673 had the VDM 9-12010 prop, common to most Bf 109 F-4s. F-1 and F-2 production typically used the VDM 9-11207 and the Gustav employed the VDM 9-12159A or VDM 9-12087A. The Werknummer is visible (faintly) on better copies of the photograph... 8673 was an Erla production machine completed in November 1941 and delivered to JG 27 in the late summer of 1942. It's history prior to delivery is unknown other that at some point it received a low demarcation repainting. Other identifying traits are the brush painted fuselage crosses, lack of over head armour, and no supplemental windscreen armour. many thanks for the info!!...now I have to find the F prop....any aftermarket in 1:24??...one way is to modify the E prop...(from Airfix) Edited April 27, 2018 by Menelaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menelaos Posted April 27, 2018 Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 but this 109 is an F on the pic (unknown if this ac is one of Marseilles machines...) and has the G typ prop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMaben Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Hi Menelaos , the VDM 9-12010 had a wider blade than the earlier F blades. Gs had the VDM 9-12159 like RBrown said, which was even wider. So the 12010 was unique to the F-4 (Z). You may have to start with a G prop and reduce the blades. Here's a nice shot of the F-4 blade. RBrown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBrown Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) The bottom photo in Post 23 is a somewhat of a mystery. The aircraft appears to be a F-4 based on the round wheel wells, but it has the wider VDM 9-12087 prop of a G series machine. The F-4Z was fitted with the wider prop but purportedly no F-4Z was assigned to 1./ JG 27. Incidentally, photo was published by Shores and Ring in Fighters Over the Desert Arco,1969 where it was described as one of Marseille's aircraft. Edited April 27, 2018 by RBrown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menelaos Posted April 28, 2018 Author Share Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) The bottom photo in Post 23 is a somewhat of a mystery. The aircraft appears to be a F-4 based on the round wheel wells, but it has the wider VDM 9-12087 prop of a G series machine. The F-4Z was fitted with the wider prop but purportedly no F-4Z was assigned to 1./ JG 27. Incidentally, photo was published by Shores and Ring in Fighters Over the Desert Arco,1969 where it was described as one of Marseille's aircraft. give me a time machime please...... Edited April 28, 2018 by Menelaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Perhaps a "field-expedient" fix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBrown Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) Here are a few additional bits of information that I have collected on 8673. 1. Whitewall tire on tail wheel. 2. Tail reinforcing strips present. 3. Pilot's overhead armour absent. 4. Windscreen appliqué armour absent. 5. Werknummer consisting of digits only was hand painted on tail. 6. Black swastika marking with white outline only. 7. ' Hier Aufbrocken' marking on rear fuselage hand lettered. 8. "Riefendruck 4,5 Atu' marking over tail wheel is original factory stencil which has been masked over original RLM 78 or possibly RLM 76. 9. Data plate on tail painted over. 10. Gust lock marking applied to tail and rudder in black. 11. Fuselage frame numbers absent. 12. Paint chip or repair visible on port white fuselage band. 13. No walkway marking on wing upper surface. 14. No trim tab markings. The aircraft may have left factory in the standard fighter camouflage (RLM 74, RLM 75 over RLM 76). This would explain the low fuselage color demarcation line when repainted with RLM 79. Edited April 29, 2018 by RBrown Menelaos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menelaos Posted April 28, 2018 Author Share Posted April 28, 2018 wow that's a useful list TNX!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menelaos Posted April 28, 2018 Author Share Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) do we have pics of the 8673 showing the missing overhead armour? Edited April 28, 2018 by Menelaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBrown Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 do we have pics of the 8673 showing the missing overhead armour? Menelaos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menelaos Posted April 28, 2018 Author Share Posted April 28, 2018 I found that pic of the 8673.... RBrown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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