Su-27 vs. MIG-29?

[Bill Cross]

I also made no comment about how much money you might spend, so if you are offended, I did not intend for that, nor do I think I said anything that should have offended. I merely expressed my opinion that if you want an early MiG-29 it's more practical (never said or implied anything about cost) to make one out for the Revell kit than try and backdate the Trumpeter kits.

Dave, I was not referring to you, I'm sorry if you thought I was offended, I'm not. There are some folks on this board (you know who you are) who use every announcement about a new AM goody to tell us how "real modelers don't need those things" and the "decline of Western civilization/modeling skills." I was trying to forestall that sort of thing, and expressed myself badly. It comes from experience: there was a thread about 109s that got totally out-of-control over which kits were all right and which ones were OK, including what needed fixing on which kit blah, blah, blah. I was thinking of that and it made it sound like I meant you. My bad.

 

This thread and everyone who replies are very helpful, because:

 

I don't NEED another kit that's going to cost $100+ and then need $100-$200 worth of fixes and upgrades to make it look correct. Sometimes I just have to walk away from a kit and go back to the ones beckoning me from the basement....

 

Your information was very helpful, I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. This sort of posting isn't as useful as sitting with someone and discussing it; I'm sure you and I would get along just fine, because I certainly respect the learning and experience you bring to this.

 

This really limits your choices if you want a really accurate modern Russian build.

The Trump MiG-21 is a nice kit.

Sometimes it's better to let the kit seduce you rather than look for the right kit. I've always had a "thing" for the 21.

 

Yes the MiG-29 gets expensive if you want anything remotely accurate. I'm still proud of my OOB Revell kit though. If you just look at it from the front and don't pay too much attention, it's still an impressive model...

No question about it.

 

If you don't want to spend a whole bunch and are willing to overlook some accuracy issues, the Su-27 Flanker B might be your best bet. They can be found for around $90 (Ebay or Hobbystuff Depot)

That's worth looking into, Chris. I'm learning a lot from this thread, and I want to thank all of you who have taken the time to reply.

[Phartycr0c]

For what my opinion is worth, The SU 27 is as impressive in kit form as it is in 1:1 scale.

 

I have built the SU 27 with Chris's updates and found it to be a really satisfying experience which produces an outstanding subject.

 

 

I also have the Trumpeter Mig 29M in the stash and on the face of it it seems an equally nice kit however it does n't blow my skirt up quite as much as the big SU ..

[Bill Cross]

I will put the SU-27 on my birthday wishlist.

 

One final question: are the exhaust nozzles from Aires worth $40?

 

 

Thank you, Gents, for your gracious help. All are thanked profusely! Happy Holidays, may you all get your wishes for Chanukah or Christmas or Kwanza or whatever you celebrate. Cheers!

Edited December 21, 2011 by Bill Cross

[Juggernut]

I will put the SU-27 on my birthday wishlist.

 

One final question: are the exhaust nozzles from Aires worth $40?

 

 

Thank you, Gents, for your gracious help. All are thanked profusely! Happy Holidays, may you all get your wishes for Chanukah or Christmas or Kwanza or whatever you celebrate. Cheers!

 

In one word....Yes. As are the Zactoman corrections for the kit.(pre or post ripoff mold).

[Bill Cross]

The SU-27 may be the "big jet" I was looking at without having to spend all the money for upgrades for the Strike Eagle....

[Zactoman]

One final question: are the exhaust nozzles from Aires worth $40?

First let me say that I would assume that any Flanker B kit that you buy new at this point would be the 're-tooled' version. I'd think that most retailers would have already sold their older stock and now have the newer kits.

If you buy one from an individual, say on Ebay, it might be the older tooling. Unfortunately there's no way of telling from the outside of the box.

I'm also assuming that all of the new Flanker B kits have all of the 're-tooled' parts included in the Su-27UB kit and not just the intakes. Those re-tooled parts include the canopy, nosecone, intakes and exhausts. Comparison pictures of all of these can be seen on this Su-27UB thread: http://s362974870.on...dpost&p=1547234 (see post #46).

Comparison pics of the original parts to my parts can be found in the giant Flanker thread on ARC: http://s362974870.on...showtopic=39249

Or if you want to save some time check the Su-27 folder of my Photobucket account: http://s79.photobuck...u-27/?start=all

 

Now, if you get the new tooling, here is the order I would personally recommend upgrading (Decals are a given unless you want the schemes included in the kit):

 

1. Canopy - Though they 'fixed' the canopy, they only did so by straightening the bulge/bubble of the windscreen portion. Overall the canopy is still too bubbled and looks slightly animated. My canopy corrects the shape and also includes lots of internal framing detail.

2. Cockpit - This is a personal choice as I am drawn to cockpits. The kit cockpit is mediocre but OK if you're not a cockpit buff. Aires, Blackbox and Eduard all blow the kit pit away.

3. Wingtip pylons - The kit ones are just so wrong... Lots of people do build it with stock pylons and the kit still looks impressive.

4. Nosecone - Though the re-tooled nosecone has a better profile, they didn't fix the panel lines behind the cone. The dielectric panel on the kit part is much too narrow and should be more square. This wouldn't be a big issue but that panel is going to be painted either white or green and really stands out. Rescribing would be difficult as the cone line is in the wrong spot and would need to be rescribed as well.

5. Missiles - As with cockpits, I'm drawn to weapons. The missiles that Alexander created are simply awesome (Comparison pics here: http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=181932 See posts #84 and 112). The kit missiles could be used but I'd at least recommend modifying the Alamos as the span on the front fins is about 1/2" too long ( http://s362974870.on...ndpost&p=475605 see post 796).

6. Intakes - The 're-tooled' intakes have the correct shape but the surface detail is weak. The louvered vents on the sides are a prominent feature of the Su-27 in my eye and the kit parts just fall short. The extra, more accurate detail of the aftermarket is also a big plus.

7. Exhausts - The re-tooled exhausts are a big improvement. The kit exhausts could be re-worked to be nice but would take a lot to match the aftermarket. I'd at least remove the big raised warts/rivets. The Aires exhausts are very nice.

8. Pylons - The full set (which does include the wingtip pylons). The kit pylons are weak, especially the centerline pylons. The aftermarket are sweet. Comparison pics here: http://s362974870.on...pic=192896&st=0 (see posts #118 and 125)

9. Wheel wells - The Aires wells are awesome. The kit parts could be detailed with lots of wire and stuff.

 

As I said previously, I'd recommend at the very least replacing the canopy. The other items are discretionary. Note that I included items the are most visible from the top without picking up the model and put the intakes, pylons and wheel wells further down the list.

 

If by chance you get the early tooled kit, I'd put the canopy, intakes and nosecone tied at #1, all mandatory...

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

Edited December 22, 2011 by Zactoman

[Phartycr0c]

^^ ill second every word of what Chris has written. I really did Umm and ahh over what improvements I was going to invest in and having done quite a bit of research ultimately went for the canopy intakes and nose, and i'm so glad I did. TBH it does mainly come down to budget considerations. Well it did in my case anyhoo.

[Bill Cross]

Chris & Phartycr0c, thanks so much. I have saved the upgrade list. I'm putting the Flanker B on my birthday wish list, or may see if someone here wants to trade one for armor, so I don't know if I'll get a retooled one or not. I will save the tweak list to evaluate then. Thanks a million!!

[Guest Hunter]

Just adding to this.

 

I recently bought a 1/32 Trumpeter SU-27 B from a dealer in China on ebay and that more or less guaranteed I got the newer revised kit, but once you own it, open it up, you realise you are hooked and want to make the best possible build, so when I do I'll be talking to Chris for further updates.

 

I've always fancied a MIG 29 in my 1/32 hanger too, recently a UK model shop I subscribe to offered a new updated Revell Mig 29 UB (this is the two seater version) I grabbed it and looks very nice indeed and does not cost the earth ... could be I'll be buying more Zacto updates for this kit in the near future ,,, if they exist?

 

But I've always thought the modern Russian jets look better as two seaters and that's why I grabbed the MIG 29 UB ... looking back when I bought my Trumpeter SU 27 B I should have went SU 30? but I have what I have and quite happy.