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ladder4boy

f-4C Cheetah 03

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OK, since this thing is gonna be a year long i might actually have a chance at finishing! Started this kit last year.. got as far as ordering some AM for it and hacking out the intakes to try and make them seamless. Then work got in the way and it ended up on the bottom of the "to think about doing" list. No pics as of yet, but will take some tomorrow of work completed so far.

 

Plane will be Pardo's mount 64-0839 from the famous "push"..

The goodies for this build so far are...

 

Tamiya F-4C/D kit

Eduard exterior stuff

Joe Lorties EXCELLENT resin exhaust

Avionix BB cockpit

Wolfpack Decals

 

I know I'll be needing a centerline gas tank, some 750lb bombs, and an ECM pod maybe.. so if anyone makes this stuff or knows who does, feel free to chime in!

oh yeah... also.. this is my phirst phantom, so when (not if) you see me doing something stupid, like putting the wrong thing in the wrong place, please tell me! I'm really looking forward to this build.. should be a LOT of fun!

 

OK.. first question. If you could have only ONE reference book (preferably CHEAP) for the F-4C, which one would it be?

 

Cheers!

Jerry

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Cool project! Are you going to crack the windshield???

 

If I could only have one Phantom reference it would be The Modern Phantom Guide by Jake Melampy. Not really cheap but it is one stop shopping. There are something on the order of 35 full color closeups of the front cockpit of a C alone. The book is amazing. I wasted time and money on two other prominent phantom books and was disappointed. Every detail you can imagine is photographed and explained. The book is definitely made for the modeler.

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Pic heavy post, so apologies in advance!

 

Starting point..

DSCN3484.jpg

 

some more pics of Joe's cans..

DSCN3487.jpg

DSCN3486.jpg

DSCN3485.jpg

there's some resin dust in there.. that's my bad for not cleaning it out.. these things are beautimus

 

and here's where we lost interest..

 

got the intakes hacked off fairly cleanly

DSCN3488.jpg

 

lost the pictures i took while doing this, but you might be able to see what was glued where and puttied..

DSCN3489.jpg

DSCN3490.jpg

DSCN3491.jpg

 

I don't have pictures of the huge step involved, but i think most of ya know where it was and how bad it was. Filled in with bondo to begin with, then smoothed it out. I do NOT recommend this, as bondo shrinks considerably after a while. This had dried for over a year now, so i think it's safe! after bondo, i sanded with pieces of 200 grit stuck to foam backed double stick tape attatched to a popsicle stick, the puttied again with epoxy putty (milliput), sanded again, then repeated the process till it looked okay. Then i poured oil based primer (zinsser B-I-N to be exact) into them, turning them this way and that until all surfaces were covered, then standing them up iside a cup on a stick to let the excess drain off. Learned that trick here on LSP.. I think from one of Russ' builds actually. Anyhow, it leaves a pretty heavy coat of paint inside, but after it's dried for a day, hit it with some more 200 grit, then 320 and it smoothes out nicely. These pics are after the first paint pour and sand.. still needs some filling and priming, but coming along nicely. The backlight from behing really lets ya see your bad spots.

 

still needs some filler here..

DSCN3493.jpg

 

other one looks better..

DSCN3498.jpg

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and in place with the splitter taped on..

DSCN3502.jpg

 

the fit back to fuselage looks pretty good too.. maybe just a little putty here..

DSCN3503.jpg

DSCN3504.jpg

 

That's where we are now! Gonna start trying to decipher this cockpit set tonight and see if i can get some work done tomorrow.

 

I'll be using the sparrows and one 370 gal tank. If anyone needs the bombs and sidewinders and ecm pod from the kit for your build (not your super-secret stash!) they're yours, just be advised that most of them are already glued together (i tend to build ordinance first for some reason) and not sanded, puttied, finished or otherwise purdied up in any fashion! Any parts i won't be using (cockpit stuff, etc..) are yours if you need them. From what i've seen so far in this GB is that it's pretty much a "group" build with everyone helping everyone else to achieve a common goal. I fully intend on stealing every trick i see, begging for parts i don't have, and offering anything that i DO have that i don't need!

 

So who can hook a brother up with a QRC-160-1 ECM pod? or better yet, tell me what kind of pod is in the kit?

 

Harv.. I'll take you up on that offer! and for your wheels as well.. I'll pm ya

 

Blackbetty... Let me know if you can let your 750's go. Joe's e-mail addy is all i have, but he makes all kinds of phantom stuff.. long burner cans and short ones. try him at fox4wwforever@gmail.com. Super nice guy.

 

Ron.. not cracking the glass as this will be pre-flight.. the only reason i'm not doing both planes in an in-flight dio is cuz i suck at modeling battle damage! That, and i spent too much money on wingscale planes and i can't afford another phantom at the moment! I'm definately ordering that book tho! thanks for the heads up on that.

 

 

Thanks for lookin!

Jerry

Edited by ladder4boy

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Looks great! An awful lot of work had to be done on the intakes. I chickened out and got some D-Mold seamless ones.

 

I agree about the Modern Phantom book. I borrowed it from a friend for the project. It's pretty much all you need....

 

Chris

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Just a note:

 

the nozzles and after burner cans that Joe Lorties claims are his are actually copies of CAM after burner cans, and the CE nozzles! I made the originals for the CE nozzles and can recognize my work. I hope Joe is getting pleasure out of taking credit for other peoples' work.

 

Bruce

Edited by Bruce

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okay guys.. question time! I know that i'm going to need the Mk 5 ejection seats for this build, but does changing the seat affect anything else in the cockpit? launch rails, etc? haven't recieved my reference book yet and information on the mk 5 in a phantom cockpit online is sketchy at best. also, if you just happen to have some mk 5 seats laying around that you don't need, i've got a trade up for my Mk 7's!

 

Jerry

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Jerry,

 

A few things, since I'm doing an a/c from around the same time.......

 

I'm not sure about the seats. As far as I can tell, you won't need to mod the rails at all. I should have my AMS MB-5 seats in today, so I'll let you know when I compare them. I'm in the same boat about the later seats....I have hte really nice looking Brassin ones laying around, now with nothing to go into.

 

The early F-4's used a straight leading edge inboard pylon. The kit ones are the later curved ones.

 

Also, the F-15 tank won't be appropriate for the time frame. You'll need the early tank from a Revell F-4E or Tamiya F-4J kit.

 

The best way to go is to find a Revell F-4E, since the E would use the curved pylons and later tank, but includes both of each. I got that both from a friend with the kit.

 

Chris

Edited by csavaglio

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Thanks Chris.. looked for Harolds seats around on all the usual sights and everybody is sold out at the moment... along with most of the other F-4 related stuff! thinking our little GB here has wiped out everybodies iventory? :BANGHEAD2:

 

The straight leading edge inboard pylon.. are you talking about that one being used for the centerline tank pylon as well? haven't found a pic of the early centerline pylon yet for reference purposes. I'm sure the kit pylons need some work, as i know they didn't have the sidewinder rails added until well after this plane burned a hole in the jungle.

 

was gonna get started on the 'pit today.. mostly taping stuff together to see what i need to hack out of the kit and try to get the "pre-fit" check done... so i'll be looking forward to how Harolds seats fit (i'm sure they'll fit perfect if they're like his other stuff). i know the Mk 7 seat had all kinds of stuff on the top that went along with the arming mechanisms and canopy, but not sure how it all worked out with the Mk 5 seat.. still hunting that stuff down (BTW.. i'll try to find the link i had to the Martin Baker site again and post it here.. had some great pictures of the different marks and the differences between the navy and air force versions, etc..).

 

Another question i have is about the wing tip dihedral.. am i correct in that it's supposed to be 12.5 degrees? and if so, is that from the main wing, and if so, does the main wing have any dihedral to it?? enquiring minds wanna know! mostly because i'm temporarily installing the wing to make sure the itakes are installed correctly, and i don't want to set in motion a series of unfortunate events if you know what i'm sayin'.

 

thanks again for all the help!

Jerry

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Hey Jerry, here is the MB link. The have a really good picture of a MK5 as well.

 

http://www.martin-baker.com/products/Ejection-Seats/Mk--1-to-Mk--9.aspx

 

As far as the rails go, I am using the CE Mk 5's and the kit cockpit but made my own rails. I had to narrow them up a bit to fit the seat better but am unsure of the difference on the AMS seats.

 

I managed to find an ECM pod in my 105 kit that matches what should be there. I will need to add the rat blades as the pod used at that time was powered that way. My understanding is that for Bolo, the 8th scavenged ecm pods from anywhere they could, mainly 105 squadrons. They gave them back immediately following Bolo but got more where they could. I am not sure when they got the later pods without the propeller blades. The kit pod is a later version that was not suitable for a 1967 airplane. I believe.

 

Here is a pic of the three pods I had handy.

 

10f1219e.jpg

 

The top is from the Trumpy 105 kit and looks closest to what was used in this time period. (ALQ-71 or QRC160???)

 

The middle pod is from the Trumpy F-100D kit. (ALQ-87?)

 

The bottom is what comes with the Tamiya C (ALQ-87?)

 

I am sure some of the guys know way more about it than me but I am new to this whole Phantom thing. :innocent:

Edited by big matt

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Jerry,

I haven't found many good pics on the MB-5 seat, so if you do, don't hold out on me.

 

Sprue Bros had one left in stock after my order, but they're sold out. You can have them notify you when it comes back in stock. Hopefully you won't need them till the end. I'll let you know how they fit in. AMS has them singularly as F-8 seats, but they also package them as early F-4 seats as a pair for a little cheaper.

 

The dihedral, from what I understand, is at the wing hinge joint, between the main wing and outer panels. I printed a couple protractors (google: printable protractor) and glued them to cardboard, then cut it off at 12.5 degrees. I'll use this to set the angle. I borrowed the Nautilus jig from a friend who got it for a magazine review, but after assembling it, the plane doesn't really sit anywhere on it that looks right, so I probably won't use it.

 

The centerline pylon looks ok on the Revell one, but it's really narrow. On the real one, it's supposed to fair over that part on the bottom of the fuselage, so I'll be widening it.

 

The ones I was talking about are for the inboard wing pylons...the ones that typically had sidewinders. The first pic is of a C, but it's got the later style USAF pylons. The second is of a Navy J, but they kept the early pylons. These are from walkarounds on Prime Portal....

 

F-4C_001.JPG

 

f-4j_153808_10_of_11.jpg

Edited by csavaglio

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Oh, just to add, the Trumpeter F-105 comes with a pair of the correct, Bolo-era pod, the QRC-161/ALQ-71, as mentioned. I haven't looked yet to see what mods need to be made, as mentioned by Big Matt. Typically, Thuds only carried one, so stealing it from a Thud kit is an option if you have one in the stash.

 

If you don't, I just picked up a second Thud from another forum member. That leaves me with 3 pods...one for each Thud and an extra. I'd be happy to send it to you. Call it fair payment for the decals you saved my butt with.

 

Chris

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