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ladder4boy

f-4C Cheetah 03

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Chris.. thanks for the heads up and the pictures. and if you have that extra pod i'd love to have it.. as i don't have a Thud in the stash (surprisingly :hmmm: may have to remedy that later).. Harold..thanks for the head's up on the seats.. a little pricier cuz you only get one seat per bag, but i ordered one just for test fitting purposes. I'll buy the set when it comes available or if i can get a trade for my Mk 7's then use the seat for an F-8! a $17 seat is a perfect excuse to buy an $80 kit, right??

 

Thanks guys!

 

Jerry

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quick thought.. does the Tamiya f-4J kit have the correct wing pylons? or did they just use the same kit pylons? Looking for a excuse to buy a J model here!

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The J kit should (I don't have one) have the right pylons. The problem is that the Navy versions never went to the rounded ones, so you'll end up needing pylons for that kit unless you cast them. Same for the centerline, but the plane can fly without it. The wing pylons would be a bit more noticable if they were gone.

 

C

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Hi Guys,

 

For my "two cents";

 

There are several differnt stories told of the configuration of the external pylons and stores carried during Operation BOLO. I've found this to be the most widely "accepted" configuration.

 

Right O/B Pylon "station 9"; O/B Weapon Pylon with ALQ-71 Pod.

These pods were borrowed for the F-105 outfits as the intent of the deception was to mimic the flight profile the F-105s including “electronic signature”.

I/B Pylons; "stations 2 & 8" 2 AIM-9B,s each

Stations 3, 4, 6 and 7; AIM-7's

Left O/B "station 1; External Fuel Tank.

C/L "station 5"; External Fuel Tank.

 

The Tamiya J model does contain the correct I/B Pylons.

 

However I'm still not sure if the AIM-9B's were carried on the LAU-7A/A or the AERO-3B launch rails.

Anyone got any info or pics?

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

Barry

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Your always helpful Barry! Weren't you modifying a pylon in one of your WIP's before this whole GB got started?? I'll have to go look that up. The wolfpack instructions for Pardo's plane gives a pretty good description of the load out for that day, and i know the pylons hadn't been modified yet to where they could carry both sidewinders and bombs on the same pylon.. so i'm thinking all i have to do is find some period pictures and start modifying what i can. I've probably got a good couple of months to worry about that till i'm ready to start on the externals!

 

Now, after tinkering around with this resin cockpit, i've kind of decided to scratch my own from the kit. We'll see how that goes. All i know is that i've got a box full of evergreen and solder and i'm not afraid to use it! :evil_laugh: Supposed to rain all day tomorrow and i'm currently un-employed from my sideline job, so I'll see what kind of trouble i can get into tomorrow while the wife and kids are gone!

 

Thanks for the input so far guys! i really do appreciate it!

 

Jerry

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Sorry Jerry, I don't mean to hijack your build, but this question is sort of applicable. Does anyone know for certain when Colonel Olds ordered his shops to modify the TER's to accept AIM 9's and a single bomb? I read it somewhere and assume it was sometime in 1967 but wonder if it was before May 4. My understanding was he had them make a spacer of some kind for the Sidewinders. Barry???

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Barry,

 

This is prob more appropriate in my build thread, but it's a response to your comments.

 

The problem with using the J kit's pylons is that the navy carried them throughout, so you'd be short pylons for that kit. I found pics of the plane Olds flew, 680, on the day of Bolo from around the right time, and it shows both straight and curved pylons, depending on the time. Photos with its first SEA paint job (weathered, with 1 or no kill marks) show it with the early straight ones, photos after it's repaint (two kill marks) show it with the later USAF curved ones.

 

As far as the Bolo loadout, what you've typed is pretty much the only way that makes any sense. The ECM pod could only be carried on the starboard outer pylon. The rest is pretty standard CAP loadout and makes sense from the combat reports (utilizing a mix of Sparrows and Sidewinders).

 

I didn't know that there were 2 diff rails for the AIM-9s.....guess more time scrutinizing photos....

 

C

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Barry.. feel free to hijack away! least i can do since i plan on bugging you with questions for the next couple of months! My only "source" that i have is on the notes sheet that came with the fox one decal sheet. A quick summation of their notes:

 

AIM-9 sidewinder and launch rails.. basically, the launch rails used in early 1967 mounted at a slight downward angle and USAF bomb rack sway brace bolts interfered with the AIM-9 fins, so bombs/ECM and Sidewinders couldn't be carried at the same time. Launch rail extenders were introduced and first used on June 8, 1967. On the Tamiya kit, these extenders are present on the sidewinder rails, so need to be removed for planes prior to this date.

 

Other notes of interest for F-4C models:

C-models were deliverd with the straight style LAU-17/A inboard pylon (the navy, or straight one). These began being replaced in late 1966 with the USAF "MAU-12" pylon (it had no official designation, but we'll call it the curved one). The LAU-17 was designed to carry and launch Sparrow missiles and had no bomb rack installed, although there was an adapter that would allow the TER to be carried. The MAU pylons allowed bombs and TER's to be carried directly, reducing drag. By the start of 1967, a number of Wolfpack Phantoms had the LAU's replaced with MAU's, but around mid-February they should have all been carrying the MAU pylons. It also states that it would be impossible to tell without photographic evidence which planes had which pylon at the time. So BOLO phantoms could have had either one.. Crab 01 and Crab 02 could have had either one, The "push" planes, Flamingo 01, Tampa 01, and Harpoon 03 would have all more than likely had the MAU.

 

as to the ECM pods. the QRC-160-1, or ALQ-71 pod (the production version of the QRC.. they were externally identical) could only be carried on the right outboard pylon and had to have the ram air turbine (RAT) propeller on the front of it for power. In late 1967, the ability to use aircraft power was introduced and the RAT was removed. In June of 1967, the capability to carry the ECM on the right inboard pylon was introduced. The pods were usually painted white, but some have their upper surfaces painted in dark green.

 

Also, in 1967 USAF Sidewinders were painted overall gloss white with yellow stripes with the rollerons in natural dark aluminium.

 

there you have it.. all the info i have on stores and missles from the nice folks at Fox one.

and yes, i plagiarized!

 

 

Hope that helps!

Jerry

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Sorry Barry.. i meant "Matt, feel free to hijack away".. both you guys using spooks for your avatar is getting me all confused :mental:

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Hi Guys,

 

For my "two cents";

 

There are several differnt stories told of the configuration of the external pylons and stores carried during Operation BOLO. I've found this to be the most widely "accepted" configuration.

 

Right O/B Pylon "station 9"; O/B Weapon Pylon with ALQ-71 Pod.

These pods were borrowed for the F-105 outfits as the intent of the deception was to mimic the flight profile the F-105s including “electronic signature”.

I/B Pylons; "stations 2 & 8" 2 AIM-9B,s each

Stations 3, 4, 6 and 7; AIM-7's

Left O/B "station 1; External Fuel Tank.

C/L "station 5"; External Fuel Tank.

 

The Tamiya J model does contain the correct I/B Pylons.

 

However I'm still not sure if the AIM-9B's were carried on the LAU-7A/A or the AERO-3B launch rails.

Anyone got any info or pics?

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

Barry

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blackbetty.. that would be awesome! Just let me know what i owe ya for shipping.. and if you need anything i've got in return!

 

Cheers,

Jerry

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No worries Jerry. It was a bit confusing with the avatars. I thought I was Barry for a minute! I thought I would go with a Phantom specific avatar during this build but have abandoned that idea. Sorry for the confusion and thanks for the date on the TER mod. I was hoping to spice up the loadout on my Flamingo 01 build.

 

Matt

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Good news for those planning on using Harold's AMS M-B 5 seats. They drop right in with no modifications necessary and they look great.

 

Chris

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Harvey.. i've been looking around the web at walk arounds.. been using this site, as it's pretty helpful..

http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/f-4_home.htm

 

looking at the C model walkarounds, so far it looks like all of the panels are supposed to be there, just not raised! i'm in the process of scribing around them and sanding them down now. I don't know if all the kits have the same fuselage mold or not.. but mine had some pretty serious mold seam lines on it and a lot of places where rivets were missing.. mostly on the curve of the fuse near the top. there's two raised panels on the tail section.. one on each side, that should be flush... well, flush-ish.. from the pictures i've seen they're VERY slightly raised.. but not at the thickness the kit shows, so i figured flush was better. I may be wrong about the BDR panels not being BDR panels.. but i've seen them as actual flush panels on more than one airframe, so i'm going with that!

 

beware of the panel on the port side top of the engine.. that hinge is a mother to rescribe!

 

Will post some pics of where i'm at on scribing/scraping/sanding tomorrow so you guys can tell me which ones i need to put back on! Still looking at stuff to correct the tail by the burner cans.. especially around that rear vent that's way off. Also have a few tricks i'm gonna try on the tail...we'll see how that works out. Basically stalling so i don't have to start scratch building on this cockpit :lol:

 

hope that helps!

Jerry

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