Erwin Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Hi all, Belgian fishermen,from Ostend,cought a propellor in their nets a while ago in the Northsea. That's that small bit of water between Britain and Belgium Anyway,they want to know from what type of aircraft it came. I've seen it and to me it's most likely from a B-17. Unless that type of prop was used by other bombers too ?? My questions are. Is there a serialnumber somewhere on the prop that could help us identify from witch plane it came? If there is ,we could perhaps get to know the actual aircraft too.When it was shot down,etc... Any help here guys ?? I will try posting some pictures ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolie Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Hey thats cool Erwin Do you have any pictures? If I remember right the B-24 used mostly the same Hamilton Standard props. There would have to be a plate on it with some details though. If its still intact you could trace it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick728470 Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Erwin, To my knowledge,props never had serial numbers.Just the factory seal that u see on the decal sheet as to the type of plane u'er working on.The B-24 prop is alittle different than the B-17 prop.Especially the hub that u see on the prop.If u got some picks of the 17 and the 24 prop.U'll see the difference on them.Have several pics in the info i have on both planes.Let me know on the pic as soon as u get it,then i can tell from u post.Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 There are serial numbers on each of the components that make up the prop, namely the blades but I don't know if the whole assembly is serialized or not. I'm thinking not. The blades may, and I mean may, have the serial number stamped on the butt end but you'd have to take the prop apart to see that. The serial numbers that were applied to the blades were painted on the back of the prop along with the drawing number, high, low and feather blade angles. This information is probably gone even if it was intact when the prop hit the water all those years ago. Odd that only the propellor is there. Usually when a prop is lost, it comes off with the prop gear reduction housing part of the engine after an overspeed (aka runaway) happened. When you put up pictures, I can tell better what's there and what's not but make sure to include pictures of the back of the prop if you can, not just the dome side. Also, take measurements if possible. If the blades are curled, use a string and run the length of the blade from butt to tip and then measure the string. This will help determine what type of plane it came off of. The B-17 used either a SAE50 or 60 spline and taking a photo of the back of the prop will help. Also, if there are any numbers/letters visible, write them down, note their location on the prop and post them here. The prop will most likely have to be disassembled to get any further information from it but ya never know, there might be something there that'll give us a clue to it's origins. Looking forward to seeing some very detailed shots of this prop. I love aviation archeology TimC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 6, 2004 Author Share Posted September 6, 2004 Hi Tim, I found no numbers at all. I think the guys started cleaning the blades,so they might have removed any numbers. I dought if this one come from a shot down plane.Wouldn't there have to be an engine too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 6, 2004 Author Share Posted September 6, 2004 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 6, 2004 Author Share Posted September 6, 2004 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 6, 2004 Author Share Posted September 6, 2004 ... nice that you can still see the yellow tips. There's no dought now if you are painting a prop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I remember talking to a diver in Poole, Dorset who made the comments that in many aircraft wrecks underwater, quite often the engine and/or props would be some distance from the main airframe. If the engine was running when the ircraft hit, the whole front end could rip itself away from the rest and screw its way through the water for up to a mile. I don't know for sure if this is the case but it has a certain logic to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 6, 2004 Author Share Posted September 6, 2004 I got some more info from the fishermen. It was found at these coordinates 51 ° 45 35 N 1 ° 27 22 E Can someone do anything with these ? Perhaps there are crashreports on the internet with these coordinates ? Just thinking out loud...you never know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Well, I'll tell ya a couple things for sure, the dome of the prop is gone. What you see with the grooves in it (part closest to the pavement)is part of the pitch change mechanism which is contained within the dome of the hydromatic propellor. The other definite is that this prop definitely DID runaway because just like I thought, part of the reduction gear of the engine it was mated with is still attached to the prop. What you're looking at on the back of the prop is part of the reduction gearing used to reduce the engine rpm to a suitable propellor rpm. I don't know if it was a sun type or planetary type reduction gearing though. I'll have to do some looking at the R-1820 to find out. That in itself may tell us whether or not this prop came from a B-17, B-24 or something else. I will tentatively agree with you that it certainly does look like a paddle blade propellor from the B-17. It may take me a while to find out what the reduction gearcase for the 1820 looks like inside. Stay tuned. If you can gain access to it again, look very closely at the back of each prop blade about 1/3 up the way from the butt. Now bear in mind, the back of the prop is the camber side which faces away from the pilot. In simple terms, it's the side that's facing the pavement in your pictures. Since the yellow warning stripes are still visible, maybe the prop serial numbers are still visible underneath the barnacles or whatever that junk is encrusting the prop. TimC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 got some more info from the fishermen.It was found at these coordinates 51 ° 45 35 N 1 ° 27 22 E Can someone do anything with these ? In this case, I don't think the coordinates will help. Since the blades are not visibly damaged it's safe to assume that the propellor was lost inflight and tumbled to the sea after it ran away. Depending upon the alititude of the parent aircraft when it departed, it could be miles away from the point where it was shed. Oh, incidentally, if some of you are wondering what I mean by a runaway prop; it's a condition that occurs when a propellor on a dead engine, will not respond to control inputs (in other words, cannot be feathered) and spins faster and faster until the engine cannot take the vibration and force from the spinning prop and the prop tears itself from the engine, usually taking part of the engine reduction gearing along with it. Just what happened in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 If the engine was running when the ircraft hit, the whole front end could rip itself away from the rest and screw its way through the water for up to a mile. Yes, that's true but the prop blades would be all bent to hell from the impact with the water. From what I'm seeing, there is little or no damage to the blades at all, indicating that it wasn't spinning when it hit the water, or at least not spinning fast enough to cause the blades to bend. Also, it looks as though part of the rubber from the dome seal is still attached to the prop. As it's only a picture, I can't tell if this is rubber or part of the dome that is missing but it looks like part of the seal to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 6, 2004 Author Share Posted September 6, 2004 hi Tim, Thanks for the info so far. I knew this was like looking for a needle... But the boatcrew wants to donate it to our local maritime museum. And it would be nice if they could post some info on a board for the visitors. They even asked if I knew from what year the prop is Any info is welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Mike Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Make a hell of a ceiling fan! mike in calif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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