Another 'Bird cage' canopy conversion?

[Derek B]

QUOTE(Derek B @ Jan 22 2010, 04:06 AM)

I wouldn't mind, but with the release of the DMI conversion, I don't know if there is enough room in the market for essentially two identical products? (well, maybe not quite identical, mine would have more parts and internal detail). I think that I shall probably be making the F4U-1 cowl nose ring and exhausts first (for both Trumpeter and Revell Corsair kits), followed by the bird cage canopy conversion for the Revell kit (unless there is a pressing reason for me to continue with a Trumpeter one as well?).

 

Cheers

 

Derek

 

 

Derek,

Personally I'd like to see you do one for the Trumpeter kit as well as the Revell kit. Why not post a question to the members and see how they feel? That should give you a fair idea as to the need.

 

Best,

 

John

 

Seems like a good idea, so I thought that I would get your thoughts on the subject. I originally intended to make this conversion, but DMI has beaten me to it. Whilst I do not like replicating - and thus competing for a market share - of the same subject, John obviously feels that there may still be room for mine...What do you think?

 

Regards

 

Derek

[ChrisS]

I would suggest looking at the Montex conversion when it hits and seeing if it will...

1. Have any errors or drawbacks
   
2. Fit the Revell kit
   

From there you should be able to see if the market will bear another effort eh?

[Derek B]

I would suggest looking at the Montex conversion when it hits and seeing if it will...

1. Have any errors or drawbacks
   
2. Fit the Revell kit
   

From there you should be able to see if the market will bear another effort eh?

 

Hi Chris,

 

I would indeed like to get my hands on one when they hit the streets - I could then get a real feel for it.

 

Point 1. You are right. From what I have seen of the photographs, the conversion is well made and broken down in same manner as mine would be. However, I am not sure how much detail is contained on the bulkhead - it may be lacking here?

 

Point 2. I have both Revell and Trumpeter kits. The DMI/Montex kit looks like it is closely tailored and designed to fit the Trumpeter kit. From my observations, the cross section of both kits just aft of the cockpit bulkhead differs quite markedly, therefore, I do not believe that the Trumpeter conversion will fit the Revell kit (that is why I am making a specific conversion/detail set for each make of kit).

 

Thanks for your input

 

Derek

[LSP Dan]

I'd play the wait and see the Montex pieces first. The Trumpeter kit DOES need a corrected cowl and flap set though.........nudge, nudge, wink, wink.......

[Derek B]

I'd play the wait and see the Montex pieces first. The Trumpeter kit DOES need a corrected cowl and flap set though.........nudge, nudge, wink, wink.......

 

Hi Dan,

 

Hadn't considered the flaps before? I understand that the flaps are somewhat fiddly to fit to the Trumpeter kit with the PE and brass parts, but you shall have to enlighten me to the actual inaccuracies?

 

Don't worry about the replacement cowl nose ring for the Trumpeter kit - that will be the first item on the Corsair list.

 

Thanks

 

Derek

[ChrisS]

The entire cowling of the Trumpeter kit is off in a couple of ways. << See link

 

Also there are some size and fit issues on the MC cowling flaps (as you know Derek) and as such they could stand a re-master too.

[LSP Dan]

What Chris said, in a nutshell. The MC flaps are well detailed but......My thoughts would be do them as a set. The cowl's no good without the flaps and the flaps are no good without the cowl!

[Derek B]

The entire cowling of the Trumpeter kit is off in a couple of ways. << See link

 

Also there are some size and fit issues on the MC cowling flaps (as you know Derek) and as such they could stand a re-master too.

 

 

Good points Chris.

 

The reason I am looking at the seperate cowl nose rings for each kit is to avoid fit issues with the kit engine to cowling, and cowling to fuselage fit. The Revell cowl is a little larger in diameter when compared to the Trumpeter kit (as well as more accurately shaped), which is probably why you had fit problems with the cowl flaps (they are designed to fot the smaller Trumpeter cowl). Although a single accurate cowl could be made to cover both kits, there would be fit and integration problems with the kit engines and fuselage fittings (then you are getting into replacement engines, then exhausts, then a complete new front end altogether - more cost, parts and complexity). At least this way, you end up with several small (more) accurate detail areas that improve the overall apperance of the completed model at an affordable price?

 

Derek

[LSP Dan]

Derek,

Let me clarify; It's the cowl flaps I meant need correcting. The MC cowl flaps don't fit the Trumpeter F4U cowl at all. Whether due to shrinkage of the resin cowl flaps or the resin master of the Trumpeter cowl used to make the cowl flaps had shrunk and therefore the domino effect in full force. The diameter is too small. I had the same problem with the MC P-47 cowl flaps. They actually fit inside the Hasegawa flaps with a little rework on the inside of the Hasegawa piece.

 

I'd go with a "universal" cowl correction. The Revell cowl is overall better shape and size. Some minor rework of the trumpeter fuselage may be needed ( again see Chris' article ) but at least this way all bases are covered with one set. I have a spare cowl and even a prototype F4U-1 Birdcage conversion I was working on I could send you if it helps.

[Derek B]

Derek,

Let me clarify; It's the cowl flaps I meant need correcting. The MC cowl flaps don't fit the Trumpeter F4U cowl at all. Whether due to shrinkage of the resin cowl flaps or the resin master of the Trumpeter cowl used to make the cowl flaps had shrunk and therefore the domino effect in full force. The diameter is too small. I had the same problem with the MC P-47 cowl flaps. They actually fit inside the Hasegawa flaps with a little rework on the inside of the Hasegawa piece.

 

Dan/Chris,

 

I now understand the problem a little better. When I made to original cowl flaps for Mastercasters, I was supplied with a fabricated cowl flap set made up as a 'one-off' to detail the Trumpeter kit (but at the time, I did not have a kit to work with). I was told that the mounting ring diameter and individual flap shapes and dimensions were already correct, and not to alter them (despite asking if they were in the first place) - so I took it on 'trust' that they were indeed correct. I may now need to completely rethink my entire cowling strategy for these two kits - and I shall need some accurate cowl flap reference data?

 

Many thanks

 

Derek

[LSP_Ray]

Hello Derek! Looks to me from Chris's build you could make a replacement cowl based on the Revell kit and if you re-do the flaps possibly end up with a part with mounting options that could fit either kit?

 

I would pass on the birdcage at least until you worked on other areas. Besides the cowl, the Trumpeter kit needs exhaust area reworked, wheelwells and gear doors redone, wings re-done, cockpit(though that is already available). You could also offer parts to go with the Montex conversion, such as radar fittings, including radar screen for cockpit, and also since you are playing with the wing anyway:) offer a -1C cannon wong conversion. And again while you are playing with wings, a cannon conversion to make a -4B.

 

Lots of stuff to do with a Corsair without duplicating others(unless they have inaccuracies). And I haven't even talked about -5's yet!

[LSP Dan]

Hello Derek! Looks to me from Chris's build you could make a replacement cowl based on the Revell kit and if you re-do the flaps possibly end up with a part with mounting options that could fit either kit?

 

I would pass on the birdcage at least until you worked on other areas. Besides the cowl, the Trumpeter kit needs exhaust area reworked, wheelwells and gear doors redone, wings re-done, cockpit(though that is already available). You could also offer parts to go with the Montex conversion, such as radar fittings, including radar screen for cockpit, and also since you are playing with the wing anyway:) offer a -1C cannon wong conversion. And again while you are playing with wings, a cannon conversion to make a -4B.

 

Lots of stuff to do with a Corsair without duplicating others(unless they have inaccuracies). And I haven't even talked about -5's yet!

 

 

Hi Ray,

 

Exhaust area does need work. I have a Moskit resin/metal exhaust conversion for the Revell kit that may need some rework to fit the Trumpeter kit. Either CMK or Aires does a gear door & wheel well replacement. Black Box ( or whatever their name is now !) and Verlinden do cockpit sets. So what's wrong with the wings? I think plugs for the -1C cannon and replacement weapons doors would work instead of replacing the entire wing. The radar stuff seems plausible. Same with the -4B. The -5 is a WHOLE 'nother story though!!

[Derek B]

Hello Derek! Looks to me from Chris's build you could make a replacement cowl based on the Revell kit and if you re-do the flaps possibly end up with a part with mounting options that could fit either kit?

 

I would pass on the birdcage at least until you worked on other areas. Besides the cowl, the Trumpeter kit needs exhaust area reworked, wheelwells and gear doors redone, wings re-done, cockpit(though that is already available). You could also offer parts to go with the Montex conversion, such as radar fittings, including radar screen for cockpit, and also since you are playing with the wing anyway:) offer a -1C cannon wong conversion. And again while you are playing with wings, a cannon conversion to make a -4B.

 

Lots of stuff to do with a Corsair without duplicating others(unless they have inaccuracies). And I haven't even talked about -5's yet!

 

Sounds like we need a complete kit Ray! (...Well, maybe for the -5 onwards? ).

 

I have so much to learn about Corsairs, although I have no doubts about being able to produce more accurate parts or details (I think that I need a 'modification map' of the aircraft to help me visulise what areas need attention?). I may give the Revell bird cage canopy conversion a lower priority (but there are still many modellers out there who would still welcome one for their Revell Corsairs). I am starting to consider a single complete cowling (with flaps) option that will fit both kits (I intended to make some exhausts anyway, I will need to integrate these into the kit engine and my cowling).

 

With wings and undercarriage, there could be enough work here to keep me busy just on Corsiars forever! (I will look into those areas though). I need to understand more about the wings in terms of flaps and armament. I am aware of a cockpit set for the Corsair, although I do not know which mark it is for, or which kit it is designed to fit? Thanks for the ideas Ray.

 

I am open to ideas? (Please excuse my ignorance of this aircraft type, but I am willing to learn).

 

Regards

 

Derek

[Barry]

Sounds like we need a complete kit Ray! (...Well, maybe for the -5 onwards? ).

 

I am starting to consider a single complete cowling (with flaps) option that will fit both kits (I intended to make some exhausts anyway, I will need to integrate these into the kit engine and my cowling).

 

Derek

Derek,

 

Having read and heard about most if not all the issues with building an accurate Corsair from either kit I think a complete cowling w/flaps that would fit either kit would be well received. My 2 cents.

 

Barry

[ChrisS]

For what it is worth the Trumpeter cowling does not even fit (read match up) that kit's fuselage (look at the link in my post above). It's radius is too small.

 

The Revell cowling actually fits the Trumpeter kit better than the kit part itself (again follow that link)! Fixing just the cowlflaps for the Trumpeter cowling is a waste of time. A full cowling/flaps solution is needed, and the bargain is that if you size it to the revell cowling it will naturally fit BOTH kits.

 

I feel that this effort would be unique in the market, and bring value to ALL current and past 1/32 F4U kits, including the 21st Cent model. If I were you Derek, that's where I would focus my Corsair efforts first. Then move onto the exaust openings and gear bay doors/openings called out here.