Picture of NVPAF MiG-15 UTI in Kep, 1967 ?

[thierry laurent]

Hi,

 

Years ago, in spite of very long searches in many books as well as on the Interweb, I never succeeded in finding one picture of a MiG-15 UTI belonging to the 923 figther regiment of the VNPAF. At least one North Vietnamese training airframe was seemingly based in Kep in 1967. She had the 2717 nose code.

 

Planes based there were painted as there was no infrastructure to hide and protect them. The VNPAF only received a very small number of such UTI planes and pictures showing them are very rare. The 2717 one is very interesting as it looks it has been a very rare, if not the sole Vietnamese MiG-15 UTI with a two tone dark green-light Khaki green camouflage. I  just rechecked yesterday evening and got the same negative result.

 

My sole source is a good color side profile of that plane in the MiG-17/19 aces of the Vietnam war Osprey book written by Istvan Toperczer. However, I've never seen the picture(s) that allowed the creation of that profile. Actually I would like to assess the state of the paint and down to which low point the colors were added on the fuselage. I guess this is probably similar to what was done on the MiG-17s but who knows...

 

I'm probably throwing a bottle in the ocean but as we are on LSP, miracles are sometimes occuring... ;-)

 

Thanks.

 

Thierry

 

 

[thierry laurent]

I'm finally wondering if that scheme is not based on written reports and registers rather than pictures. 

[thierry laurent]

Thanks Maru.

 

Finding pictures of ANY Vietnamese MiG-15UTI is already very difficult. So, finding a picture about a single one is even more complicated...

 

BR

 

Thierry

[thierry laurent]

For the 17 and 21 many pictures are hopefully available but this is quite logical as they used far more of them.

[thierry laurent]

By the way, it looks the VNPAF  also used at least two Chinese built JJ5 during the war. So, for the ones not willing to convert the Trumpeter kit, there is another possibility to use it OOTB. However, they stayed in NMF.

[thierry laurent]

1 hour ago, MARU5137 said:

Thierry,

I love books so I went googly  searching..

So you have that book ... the one mentioned on your Opening Post....see below:

Page 94 or 95 talks about the MiG-15 15 UTI  . hmmm...

the book costs £7.50.

It also looks like there may be color  photos ?

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KrOhDAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=Mig 15 uti&f=false

 

 

Thanks Maru. Indeed I have it. Alas the book does not have any picture of that airframe.

[thierry laurent]

Here's the profile I mentioned:

 

[thierry laurent]

16 hours ago, MARU5137 said:

Thierry ,

 

Here is a a 4 pages of MiG15 UTI with their Nose numbers  .

 

If you check it out I wonder if you can answer why the Nose number says one thing but on their description below the photograph the nose number is different. there are one or two like that(page 2 etc).

 

For example on one the Nose number is 1950 but the caption reads different.

I think there are one or two like that which is confusing. 

How Come?

 

Aviation photographs of Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15UTI : ABPic
https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/model/Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15UTI/?

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

MARU5137 

Hi Maru. This is not really surprising with preserved airframes. They are often repainted under different identities. Just to give you one example, as a reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine an airframe preserved in Canada was recently repainted. She lost Russian markings to receive Polish ones. Even ones that "look" intact had already been repainted, typically when they were put in museums or exhibited in public areas like that one: 

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/5/96643_1571403550.jpg

[thierry laurent]

By the way, even if not a serial number, the Bort number on the nose of such MiGs or their successors up to the MiG-21 family gives an idea of the thousands of airframes that went out of the communist factories! No other planes ever got an individual number with four or even FIVE digits!

[thierry laurent]

Thanks Maru,

 

Actually one did not inspire the other but both were heavily influenced by the same designs created at the end of world war two by some German engineers such as Kurt Tank. Have for instance a look at the Ta-183. By the way, other similar planes were built such as the Pulqui 2 in Argentina or the SAAB Tunnan in Sweden.

 

With regard to the final fate of 2717, we have no clue. Alas, finding information about specific airframes used by North Vietnam during the war is very difficult. Some files probably still exist somewhere in Hanoi...

[R Palimaka]

6 hours ago, thierry laurent said:

Hi Maru. This is not really surprising with preserved airframes. They are often repainted under different identities. Just to give you one example, as a reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine an airframe preserved in Canada was recently repainted. She lost Russian markings to receive Polish ones. Even ones that "look" intact had already been repainted, typically when they were put in museums or exhibited in public areas like that one: 

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/5/96643_1571403550.jpg

 

To be fair, that airframe flying in Canada is a Polish SB Lim-2 (Polish-built version of the MiG-15UTI) and would never have worn Soviet markings. Owners and restorers, and even museums, are not always concerned about complete accuracy. The Mustang (44-72059) that I recently helped to restore in RCAF markings as RCAF 9253 is an example. Even though the paint scheme is completely accurate for an RCAF Mustang, down to the factory markings and stencils, that specific aircraft served with the USAAF, Sweden, Bolivia and Nicaragua...but never in the RCAF. To make it even more confusing, the real RCAF 9253 (44-74582), is still currently flying in USAF markings that it never wore either! Even the "preserved" Mustang in the Canadian Aviation and Space Museum was painted (not very accurately) in camouflage and codes to represent a wartime RCAF Mustang. I suppose the intention was good back then, to represent Canada's wartime contribution, but it was also partly because the post-war NMF finish was too difficult to restore so it was decided to paint it. 

 

But it does completely confirm and support your point, that the markings on surviving airframes is always suspect. Unless of course you are building a model of a preserved example. 

 

Sorry for the lecture. 

 

Richard

Edited December 7, 2022 by R Palimaka