Juggernut Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Hi Karl! Long time no post.... LOL! Great information by the way. Do you have those upper local turret manuals in electronic format of have the ability to scan them to a PDF? IF you do, I'll gladly pay you for your trouble. I'm planning a trip to the NASM in the future but their research time is as expensive as it is extensive so I have to carefully plan what I'm going after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B. Andrus Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Do you have those upper local turret manuals in electronic format of have the ability to scan them to a PDF? IF you do, I'll gladly pay you for your trouble. I'd kick in, as well. Cheers, D.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 Thanks Karl. So, based on the three TM views you sent me it is now clear the B-17G kit has the A-1B type whereas the B-17F has the A-1A. The immediate conclusion would be that such choices make sense. However, for the guys willing go make a B-17E, I guess they will have to replace the perforated, kidney-shaped base plate of the A-1A by the plain round one of the A-1. At least, as I will build a late war staggered waist gun plane, I think I may use the one of the kit. The only question is how the ammo boxes were fixed and where the shell bags were located. I guess I still have to dig a little bit to find more information about the elusive A-1B type. In any case, you already clarified a noticeable aspect! Thanks again for that! As soon as I will be back to home, I will publish the TM views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 Well for the A-1B, a closer look to the TM view indicates that the bags were replaced by the perforated side boxes. However, the location of ammo boxes stays a mistery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl H Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) Those perforated bits WERE the ammo boxes ; ) More illustrations headed your way. Edited October 14, 2016 by Karl H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl H Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 By the way, browsing through this thread, saw there was a question of where the ball got its oxygen supply in later aircraft. Well, just like the top turret, it was plumbed into the main system through a swivel joint. That way there was no need for someone to stop and fill the bottle on the turret. The joint on the top turret gave some problems initially and caused a few fires! Not good but it was fixed. There were also some ball turrets modified to have two bottles prior to it being plumbed into the main system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl H Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) Well, I'll be darned, that worked! [ /URL] Edited October 14, 2016 by Karl H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 By the way, browsing through this thread, saw there was a question of where the ball got its oxygen supply in later aircraft. Well, just like the top turret, it was plumbed into the main system through a swivel joint. That way there was no need for someone to stop and fill the bottle on the turret. The joint on the top turret gave some problems initially and caused a few fires! Not good but it was fixed. There were also some ball turrets modified to have two bottles prior to it being plumbed into the main system. Thanks for that information Karl, I was thinking that was the case but hadn't looked around enough to determine that for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl H Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Well, while this is working, here is some more information on the A-1B. These will show the ammo boxes, the ammo feed and the spent shell bags: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl H Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) An earlier post was discussing the fabric covering. I found this very nice, if somewhat dark photo online and was using it for some other purpose. It is either and E or an F, both of which would have had the fabric/insulation treatment in the nose. In this photo, you can see the quilted insulation forward of Bulkhead 2. The fabric covering has been removed there but it remains further aft. As you can see, the insulation was darker. The fabric is also missing on the lower right. [ /URL] In this one, you can clearly see the "quilting" of the insulation (Life has provided us with some great reference photos over the years): Edited October 14, 2016 by Karl H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl H Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Just curious, which top turret comes with the HK B-17F kit? I presume that was what started this thread. Another issue is the turret domes, there were six variations of those if anyone is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted October 15, 2016 Author Share Posted October 15, 2016 Thanks very much Karl! You are my hero!!! Based on the sprue pictures I saw, the B-17E/F kit has the A-1A top turret. This is why I was questioning if this was appropriate for a E. I guess the A-1 round platform is possibly more appropriate for that mark. Note if this is indeed required, this would be an easy modification. I understand now why I was puzzled by the ammo box location... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl H Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 I am sure that the E would only have had the A-1 turret. The Belle has that model (round platform). I realize that is not 100 % definitive as it may not be the original to that aircraft but it seems a good indicator. Also of note is the fact that the Belle flew with a type 3 dome while most of her contemporaries had the Type 2. Don' know if her crew chief latched onto that somewhere (better visibility for the gunner) or just how that came about. Here are the first two turret domes. The main difference is the Type 2 deleted one crossbar in front of the gunner. Most likely the Type 1 was only on E models. The Type 2 is what you see on many, many B-17F's, even later ones. Here are the Type 3 (used on the "Memphis Belle") and the Type 4. These along with the Type 2 seem to be used on the F models and there seems to be no logic as to which appeared when. I presume it had something to do with supply issues. The Type 4 is usually easy to spot because of that raised area. Type 5 no longer has the heavy bolt patterns seen on 3 and 4. It also has a higher dome. Note the "cups" at the upper end of the gun openings. I don't know what those were for but it is a good identifying feature for this unit: And finally the Type 6. This one is very similar to the 5 but note that the "cups" have been replaced with vents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted October 15, 2016 Author Share Posted October 15, 2016 Very interesting! With regard to the turret mechanism, this confirms what I thought. The only unknown part is that I am not sure HK did not consider an alternate round base for the A-1 turret. Wait and see... I am sure a review of the kit will be published soon. This clearly shows the definite B-17 reference book has yet to be written...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palm-tree Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Has anybody built a Sperry A-1B turret such as provided with the HK Models B-17G? Did you make any alteratiions? Very difficult to find any pictures of this turret in a complete state on the internet anywhere! Help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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