1/32nd scale flying wires

[stoney]

Hello to all. I've got a question on aircraft rigging. I'm at that stage in a 1/32nd scale Monogram F3F-3 build.

The aircraft had flat, streamlined flying and landing wires (rods). What would be a good procedure to reproduce these in 1/32nd scale.

Using mono line just didn't seem right to me, but I will use that method if I have too.

I did a search, but didn't find any discusion on this. So I hope some one else had a solution in this.

Thanks,

Steve 'stoney' White

[ladder4boy]

hey Steve. Check out Radu's stuff at his store..

http://www.radubstore.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_68

 

he literally just posted some new updates on the vendors section here as well..

 

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=25023

 

Hope that helps

 

Cheers,

Jerry

[Out2gtcha]

There is also another option out there............

 

EZ Line

 

There are multiple sizes of it, colors and it takes to glue and paint well, as well as not being effected by water. Its man made so it does not sag over time, but the best part, and the reason this is the only stuff I use for rigging and aerials, is stretches 7 times its own size..........its almost impossible to snag or break. Plus when you dont have to be exact on your measurements as it stretches enough to compensate for any discrepancies.

 

Any yes, when you look at this stuff up close both sizes are actually flat as well.

 

Stuff works like a dream for rigging and antennas. Just dont get it twisted, as it is noticeable with the line being flat.

 

HTH and cheers,

Brian

Edited July 27, 2011 by Out2gtcha

[Tnarg]

I am with you in the same place on the rigging. I have researched the 30's planes and found that the US Navy and Army used both 1/2" and 3/16" wide rigging wires. The P-26 has both sizes and the F4B-4 looks like it only has the 1/2" wide lines except at the tail rigging with a lot smaller wire. I don't have a diagram for the F3F, but with all the new stuff for it like Lone Star's accessories and Yellow Wings decals, it needs the wider rigging to really shine.

 

I looked photo etched rigging, and it does have the problem of differential expansion with plastic over temperature changes. We would also need wires just a bit wider than the RAF wires which RB productions provides. They may look very good compared to the round wire alternatives, but not exactly in scale.

 

I am at the point of wondering about a parallel cutter and using very thin sheet plastic? I can't see any strip plastic with thickness under 0.005", and even that is thick compared to the original wires. 1/2 inch at 1/32 is 1/64 inch or 0.015625", which would have a 3:1 ratio of width to thickness at 0.005" thick plastic. Even so, it could maybe work?

 

I wish we could get RB wires in the US Navy and Army widths, and maybe they would match the 30's racers which also used very wide rigging wires. Anyone have any better ideas?

 

Tnarg

[Radub]

The wires that I made were based on British specifications. I have no access to the dimensions of the wires used on US aircraft. The British specifications mention one other size of wire, called "5/16"BSF", which was wider than the largest I make. The only problem is that the 5/16"BSF were not used on any WW1 aircraft and when I made the wires, I made them especially for 1/32 WW1 aircraft models. It is possible that these thicker wires were used on heavier WW1 or inter-war British aircraft such as bombers, but as no kits of such planes exist in 1/32, I saw no reason for making such wires.

One thing that must be kept in mind is that "designations" such as 5/16" do not refer to the thickness of the wire itself, but rather they refer to the threaded end. Because there was a strict correlation between the size of the zire and the size of the thread, i.e. that size of thread was used only on that size of wire, the wire itself came to be identified by the thread designation. ALL official wiring diagrams refer to the wires by these designations.

 

The dimensions of the "real life" 9/32"BSF were 0.404"x0.101"

The dimensions of the "real life" 5/16"BSF were 0.440"x0.110"

 

There is not much expansion caused by temperature differences in plastic - in fact, plastic is quite stable at room temperatures. Stainless steel does not expand or shrink when exposed to room temperature - in fact, if a model was exposed to temperatures of such extremes that cause stainless steel to expand/shrink, the expansion/shrinkage of stainless steel is the least of your problems. :-) Most people who have trouble with rigging using steel wire come across it when they do not secure the model in a jig while rigging. If you attempt to rig a model while holding it in hand and pancaking it, and flipping it, and turning it on one side, then on another, resting it on its nose and then resting it on its tail, all while holding it in hand, then Newton's laws will make sure that the wings and fuselage keep moving in relation to each other, and in turn will snap the wires. To rig anything, all parts must be secured rock-solid until all rigging is completed. And that applies even if you use elastic wires or fishing line.

 

HTH

Radu

Edited July 27, 2011 by Radub

[stoney]

Thank you gentlemen for the informative replies, I do appreciate it. Radubs "wires" really look great for some of the WWI projects I've got lined up for the future.

Last night I tried grinding down some music wire just to see how that would go. It actually went pretty well, not at all as hard as I had imagined, so I might continue with this method a while.

Again thanks to all for the help!

[Tnarg]

Thanks especially to Radu (RB Productions) for his insight and the courage to actually make some of these wires for sale. His answer got me thinking logically again (and pointed out my errors in assuming that the end thread size was the width of the wire), and I found the following website that any of you biplane or 30's racer fans should download (and store the wiring table):

 

http://www.streamlinewires.com/standards.htm

 

This has a table of British, Metric and American standard wiring for aircraft rigging. (isn't Google fun?)

 

The back cover of the P-26 book by Aerofax has the rigging diagram for the plane (which was sometimes placed inside the LH side of the cockpit) and this calls out AN676 and AN678 wiring of a variety of lengths. There are similar wiring diagrams for other planes available in the original technical manuals, and some are available. I don't have anything on the F3F, but have verbal confirmation that the F4B-4 used all 1/2" wire (AN678) except at the tail. Any more interesting information out there?

 

These wires were called 3/8" and 1/2" wiring (as Radu stated, but the table on that site finally specifies the "nominal width" of the 3/8" wires at 0.540" and the 1/2" wires at 0.732" wide. The thickness of the 3/8" wire (AN676) was specified at 0.135" minimum and 0.142" maximum. The 1/2" wire (AN678) was specified at 0.183" minimum and 0.192" maximum.

 

In our favorite scale of 1/32, the 1/2" wire measures 0.0229" wide and 0.0057" to 0.006" thick. The 3/8" wire measures 0.0169" wide and 0.0042" to 0.0044" thick. Both of these could work quite well with 0.005" to 0.006" thick material. These are actually surprisingly wide even in 1/32 and will look much different that just a single wire or the "borrowed" piece of Mom's thread that we used back in the day when we really wanted to super-detail that kit (before subjecting it to the inevitable firecracker explosion).

 

Of course these wires were actually streamlined and not rectangular in section, but that would be even more insane in 1/32 scale. However, if some enterprising soul were to provide these in stainless steel I am certain that the biplane riggers among us would show interest (Hint, Hint... if you need a pre-order to justify a photo etched run, just ask).

 

I know I have an F4B-4 in progress and way too many Williams Bros and Hasegawa biplane kits on the shelf. With the great resin aftermarket kits from Vector and Lone Star and decals from Yellow Wings and Starfighter, plus the re-issue of the Williams Brother's racers and Sparrowhawk(!!!) this is a good time to build some of these kits.

 

Tnarg

[Radub]

Those wires you are speaking of are very wide... Fortunately, such humongous wires can be simulated using Microstrip or Evergreen styrene strips. Those wings must have looked like they were rigged with claymores :-)

Radu