Spitfire Pilots Seat

[he177]

Are Spitfire seats Brown or British Interior Green? I have seen both; which is it? I'm working on a Mk I and a Mk Vb. Any help on the true color of these Mk's seat would be of great help. Thanks,

Rob Holmes

[bobba]

Hi Rob,

 

This is a topic that could run for a while, but here's my two penny's worth, from my research so far

 

Spit MkI - seat is most likely to be metal and painted interior grey green as per the rest of the cockpit.

 

Spit MkV - Could be as above or red/brown Bakelite or whatever the material is called.

 

 

I have heard of instances where the "bakelite" seats have been painted interior grey green. This includes seeing some spares belonging to the RAF memorial flight, although they may have been painted post war. I have a friend who served as an erk during the war and overheard one CO order some fitters to paint the seats on the squadron Spits, so they were all uniform. He couldn't say whether it was done as he was a radio/wireless technician and didn't have a lot to do with the airframes on a day to day basis.

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

Bob

[Dave Wadman]

Hi there,

 

Only the very earliest seats were metal/aluminium - sometimes being left in an unpainted finish but often painted in the same interior green as the rest of the cockpit area.

 

Changing them for the 'bakelite' seat (many period documents refer to them as 'plastic') was one of the very early mods. This was Mod number 189 which was introduced on 14 February 1940.

 

The bakelite seat varied greatly in colour from a mild brown to a dar, almost red oxide colour. Some were even darker being very much like the blackish-brown of the old telephones.

 

HTH

 

Dave

[CharlesMetz]

Speaking of Spitfire seats: During WW2, did all, most, some, few or none of them have a "well" in the horizontal seating surface to accomodate a "fanny-pack" (I don't know the correct term) parachute? Most published photos don't show this part of the seat, but the few photos I've found that do -- many of which are of museum aircraft -- seem to indicate that some Spitfire seats had the well and others didn't. No 1/32-scale Spitfire kit seat, as far as I know, includes the well.

 

This question has puzzled me for at least 20 years, and I've never received a straight answer on the few occasions when I've asked it on a discussion board.

 

Charles Metz

[thierry laurent]

Charles, FYI, the Aires seat is not correctly dimensioned but has this recessed area!

 

http://www.hyperscale.com/reviews/accessor...1reviewbg_1.htm

[Edgar Brooks]

With so few totally preserved, and un-rebuilt, Spitfires available, my guess (and that's all it can be,) is that the seat needed a subtle change, to address the discomfort of sitting on a parachute for long periods or, maybe, it was to accomodate the dinghy? With an initial flight time measured in minutes, it wouldn't have been an issue, but, once droptanks came into use, with longer flight times, over water, something, probably, had to be done. I have to admit that it's not an area on which I've concentrated, at all , but it looks possible that the extra diamond-shaped "well" arrived around the same time as the late V/IX. One small detail, on that Aries seat; it's for a Seafire. The framework, under the pilot's thighs, was designed for Very cartridges, and Aries have moulded them in place. For a Westland-built Spitfire the framework remained, but with just holes; for Supermarine, or Castle Bromwich, airframes, there was no fitting. Initially, Supermarine seats were metal, painted green; later all seats were resin/paper mixture. The only mods, regarding the seat, that I can find, are to fit under-seat armour, and to strengthen the seat.

Edgar

[CharlesMetz]

With so few totally preserved, and un-rebuilt, Spitfires available, my guess (and that's all it can be,) is that the seat needed a subtle change, to address the discomfort of sitting on a parachute for long periods or, maybe, it was to accomodate the dinghy? With an initial flight time measured in minutes, it wouldn't have been an issue, but, once droptanks came into use, with longer flight times, over water, something, probably, had to be done. I have to admit that it's not an area on which I've concentrated, at all , but it looks possible that the extra diamond-shaped "well" arrived around the same time as the late V/IX. One small detail, on that Aries seat; it's for a Seafire. The framework, under the pilot's thighs, was designed for Very cartridges, and Aries have moulded them in place. For a Westland-built Spitfire the framework remained, but with just holes; for Supermarine, or Castle Bromwich, airframes, there was no fitting. Initially, Supermarine seats were metal, painted green; later all seats were resin/paper mixture. The only mods, regarding the seat, that I can find, are to fit under-seat armour, and to strengthen the seat.

Edgar

Many thanks, Edgar. That makes sense -- as I would expect from you, of course.

 

Charles Metz

[Roy Noras]

Hi

 

I see from Thierri's tweak list for the Hasegawa kit from May 2006, that the seat in the kit is too big.

 

Quote: "Seat is horribly oversized and located too high" Is this oversized in height or width or both? Regarding location, it would have been nice to know how much is "too high"?

 

Any tips where to find a good drawing with dimensions so I can scratchbuild a new correctly dimensioned seat?

 

 

Roy

[Derek B]

Hi

 

I see from Thierri's tweak list for the Hasegawa kit from May 2006, that the seat in the kit is too big.

 

Quote: "Seat is horribly oversized and located too high" Is this oversized in height or width or both? Regarding location, it would have been nice to know how much is "too high"?

 

Any tips where to find a good drawing with dimensions so I can scratchbuild a new correctly dimensioned seat?

Roy

 

Hi Roy,

 

Warbird Production's (available via MDC) 1/32 resin Spitfire seat is both accurate, and the correct size.

 

HTH

 

Derek

[Roy Noras]

Thanks for the info, Derek.

 

BTW: Really looking forward to buy the Mk.21/22/24-wings you're creating. I've been following the thread closely. Superb work!

[Derek B]

Thanks for the info, Derek.

 

BTW: Really looking forward to buy the Mk.21/22/24-wings you're creating. I've been following the thread closely. Superb work!

 

No problems Roy, glad to help. Thanks for the kind words - I very busy detailing the wheel well bays at present - I'll be posting some more pictures in the near future.

 

Cheers

 

Derek

[Edgar Brooks]

I've done a bit of asking around, and found that I was on the right lines, but not totally right. Following complaints, of severe discomfort, the small well, in the Spitfire seat, was made, to accomodate the dinghy-inflating air bottle. Dinghies didn't become standard fitment, until (I'm told) some time in 1941, so the seat change could have been any time from then.

Edgar

[CharlesMetz]

I've done a bit of asking around, and found that I was on the right lines, but not totally right. Following complaints, of severe discomfort, the small well, in the Spitfire seat, was made, to accomodate the dinghy-inflating air bottle. Dinghies didn't become standard fitment, until (I'm told) some time in 1941, so the seat change could have been any time from then.

Aha! Thanks for passing on that information, Edgar. Now that you mention it, the well does look too small for a parachute <said while slapping forehead>.

 

Charles Metz

[CharlesMetz]

Charles, FYI, the Aires seat is not correctly dimensioned but has this recessed area!

 

http://www.hyperscale.com/reviews/accessor...1reviewbg_1.htm

Thank you, Thierry; I hadn't noticed the well in Brett's photo. That new Aires set looks good to me overall. In what sense is its seat dimensionally incorrect?

 

Charles Metz

[thierry laurent]

Just compare it with the Warbirds seat that is known to have been scaled from an actual one!

 

To be frank, there is no comparison with the kit seat and I believe that using the set seat will not be a terrific heresy...