F-14B,D GE engine exhaust petals

[JMann]

I thought to send off this question here to start out with. Building the trumpeter F-14D and desire to get a realistic effect of the burn effect on the inside of the engine nozzles. Have one book of a modeler going through his amazing work but doesn't lay out how he achieved his stunning results. There's some amazing talent here as I've seen some of your builds! Inspired by what I've seen. For those of you who have achieved a great result with recreating a realistic effect, what did you use and how did you do it?

 

I hope this question is in the right section 

[LSP_Kevin]

3 hours ago, JMann said:

I hope this question is in the right section 

 

Close! I've just moved it here to the Painting & Finishing section, where it more appropriately belongs. Good luck in your quest!

 

Kev

[geedubelyer]

Hi JMann, welcome aboard 

You've set quite a challenge with that question.

My question to you would be: how accurate are you aiming for?

 

The reason I ask this is because it will determine the best approach. 

 

For a general look I'd suggest two shades of grey to start with. 

Lay the lighter shade down inside the can then mask the recesses (out petals) and paint the darker shade.

De-mask and use a dark wash along the petals to add some separation. 

 

A more realistic look will take a great deal of patience and alot more work. 

 

What are your thoughts?

[JMann]

1 hour ago, geedubelyer said:

Hi JMann, welcome aboard 

You've set quite a challenge with that question.

My question to you would be: how accurate are you aiming for?

 

The reason I ask this is because it will determine the best approach. 

 

For a general look I'd suggest two shades of grey to start with. 

Lay the lighter shade down inside the can then mask the recesses (out petals) and paint the darker shade.

De-mask and use a dark wash along the petals to add some separation. 

 

A more realistic look will take a great deal of patience and alot more work. 

 

What are your thoughts?

As accurate as I can get. I've picked up Kris Sieberg's Super Detailing the F-14 Tomcat. I've put several challenges before me with this build, where I've already taken upon myself to build out an engine bay compartment, scratch build plumbing on the landing gear, build avionics bays, etc. So, taking my time on this isn't an issue   

 

So I know inside the can I butchered and tried to do what so many have achieved but doing so by hand ....... ya, bad idea. I eventually learned what I really needed to do. So it's something I'll have to go back to and address if I can. If not, it's down inside so won't be noticed really as much. I know there are different shades of grey inside the can with different "rings" with also straight lines of burn going down the whole exhaust section. So yes, I'll have to tackle this area again. Thankfully Kris in this book approached it in a way I believe I can replicate. 

 

The inside of the nozzle he achieved a very realistic look to it that's impressive. How he did it isn't really well laid out hence why I'm posting on here. So don't hold back your suggestions. This build has been something I've been tackling in chunks of time over several years. It is definitely a labor of love.

Edited July 21, 2024 by JMann

[geedubelyer]

Hi JMann, thanks for the response. 

 

To achieve a realistic appearance will undoubtedly require alot of patience. 

 

If it were me I would attempt to replicate what I could see in reference images 

Take this image for example. (Click me)

 

We can see numerous effects on each petal. 

To recreate these I'd be inclined to use pastels, water colour pencils and paint. 

My approach would be to build up the effects layer by layer, lightest first up to the darkest.

I think I'd be inclined to paint the perpendicular lines across the base grey of each petal with a light tan/grey. It might be necessary to re-apply some of the base but I'd expect to go back and forth a bit using thin coats of paint. The lightest ribs would be carefully picked out in light grey.

For the recessed (outer) petals I'd possibly try using a dark grey or black water colour pencil for the dark spots where the petals rub. 

Lastly I'd apply dry pastel powders in varying shades to achieve a mottled and soot stained effect. The powder can be moved and manipulated using a moist (not wet) cotton bud/Q-tip. 

 

Not sure if this will work

 

The image should be of a similar nozzle but from the Tamiya F-16. 

 

HTH

 

Edited July 21, 2024 by geedubelyer

[JMann]

Wow, thanks for your feedback! I haven't used pastels but I'm to trying. My understanding is once you apply the dry pastels like a dust, it's good to seal it with a clear coat so you don't lose the effect correct? Similar to the weathering pastels and powder I've read about. Water color pencils, would that be the same as the AK weathering pencils that are out there? These two things (pastels and water color pencils), I'm honestly not sure where to start and where to find them other then start at a hobby shop or even an arts and crafts store. Got recommendations? What would you use as the base color? I figure it would be a metal color?

 

I know prime portal and have devoured over every F-14 photo they have. Lots of good things there and a great resource for odd thing. What I've been trying to find are various photos of the engine bay. I've bot the DACO F-14 book which is awesome. There are some angles he didn't get with his photos that I'd love to get. 

 

 

[geedubelyer]

Hi JMann. Yes, you are correct. Sealing in the pastel is preferable though not essential if it's not in an area that gets touched alot. 

Be aware that spraying a sealant over it can affect the colour so best to try on a test mule first. 

Water colour pencils don't need sealing as much but it wouldn't hurt. 

I bought all mine at a local art store. 

 

We're talking about the inside of the burner cans, right? For the base colour I'd go with a shade of grey and build the colour up in layers from there using the pencils and pastels. 

In the reference pic I linked to a couple of the petals are a tan shade which breaks up the uniformity. I believe it wasn't uncommon to replace a single blade at a time if it showed signs of wear. The surface of the newer blades would start out lighter until it got burnt.

 

HTH

[JMann]

Yes that helps! I do remember reading that about the pastels change color with a sealant now that you mention it.