tourist

Great start. That kit is really tempting, I'd better start saving.

There we go again. I thought I was out but you pulled me back in! Great start, it looks the part.

I think I have a measurement for the width, I'll try to find it later. I can already say that Paragon and Phoenix are closer to the real thing, Verlinden's is too large and Dragon's way too small.

Good color Mustang pictures from WWII aren't very common, most of them are well know (being printed in many books). Sites like Little Friends or Web-Birds have some nice ones. http://littlefriends.co.uk/ http://www.web-birds.com/ This one came from an old magazine (towards the end of the war I think) and these are hard to come by. It was posted on the SIG forums by one of the members.

Great work!. I agree with Ironwing about the upper cowl, I guess it may be a little thick (giving the impression it seats too high), nothing a little additional sanding wouldn't correct. It could also just be the photo. The wing's airfoil drawing looks good to me. Her's a great picture recently posted posted by one of the guys on the P-51 SIG:

Looking good Geoff! I think you're right, the radio maybe undersized but the safest move is probably to get something that fits and looks the part rather than something which is accurately sized but may look to big (which I also suspect may happen here).

A lot of restored Mustang claim to be "factory" accurate but I've never seen one which truly is. There are a lot of reasons for this, one as to do with the fact that all the parts in a restored P-51 are primed to prevent corrosion and static electricity. This was not always the case during production in WWII where because of time constraint only some "sensitive" parts where protected. Another reason has to do with availability of parts, for example Happy Jack's represents a P-51D-5NA but is built as a mix between a P-51D-20NA and a P-51D-25NA as are most of the restored P-51Ds. It is much easier to find instruments for a D-25 than a D-5 (the earlier models were scrapped after the war). It still is a gorgeous restoration. I'm pretty sure no wheel wells were ever painted this way during production. As far as I know the main spar came primed with ZC before installation but the rest was assembled bare before painting (the wells where painted once assembled), photos showing a ZC spar with a metal finish for the rest of the well (such as Ding Hao) just means that the well was unpainted. The Green finish (IG) was mostly used post war, although it's safe to assume that some aircrafts may have been repainted that way in the field. Here are comments Dana Bell made overtime on Hyperscale regarding this subject: Dana Bell Mustang corrosion control... Fri Oct 1, 2004 08:33 160.111.69.104 You've got several options here, but unpainted "natural" aluminum with a yellow zinc chromate main spar is the most common for P-51Bs and Cs. The early Allison-engined Mustangs used the standard prewar corrosion control finishes for the wheel wells and struts: two coats of primer and one coat of aluminized lacquer. In 1942, before the Merlin-engined Mustangs entered production, North American was granted permission to build Mustangs without interior primers as a means of speeding production. The main wing spars were generally primed with a single coat of yellow zinc chromate to protect the alloy spar itself, to avoid dissimilar metal corrosion in the areas where the spar contacted the inner faces of the aluminum skin, and to reduce static electricity buildup on the aft face of the spar (where the main tanks were located). There is a chance that some early Bs and Cs were delivered with unpainted spars, but I've never found more than a slight possibility of that having occurred. As part of the cost- and time-savings measures, all other non-cockpit interior areas were left in unpainted aluminum finish. Since there were several grades of aluminum present, this led to corrosion issues on the Mustang, and at some point (I've not been able to pin down a date or place in production) wheel wells began to appear in overall yellow zinc chromate. I know for sure that this happened late in P-51D production. The problems had certainly been identified during B and C production, and fixes were ordered, I just can't find proof that these earlier models actually got the fix. If, for any reason, a second coat of primer was applied to the wheel well, it would have been green zinc chromate (by that time, the same as Interior Green). I haven't seen evidence of that during WWII, but it could have happened. As for aluminum lacquer with a yellow spar, that's the one option that didn't happen and actually makes the least sense. The object was to save money and time, so most corrosion control finishes were eliminated. If aluminized lacquer WAS used, it would have been used to overspray the entire well. (Leaving the main spar in yellow in a lacquered well was made more difficult by wartime shortages of both Magic Mask and Parafilm.) This may be splitting hairs on an OOOOO paint brush, but an aluminized lacquer finish just doesn't look the same as an unpainted aluminum finish, even in scale. Hope something here helps and makes sense... Cheers, Dana Dana Bell AM Mustang wells... Fri Oct 1, 2004 09:11 160.111.69.104 I plan to use an aluminum lacquer effect in my Accurate Miniatures P-51A wells - it's certainly the best documented option. The caution here is that later Allison-engined Mustangs MAY have had unpainted wells with a yellow zinc chromate spar - that documentation probably won't turn up until both of us have completed our models! Cheers, Dana Dana Bell Not so, sir... Fri Oct 1, 2004 07:50 160.111.69.104 I'm afraid "current thinking" is wrong on this one - there is no evidence of aluminum lacquered wheel wells with a yellow main spar, while there are plenty of photos of overall yellow P-51 wells. You've got to ask yourself how the manufacturer would have been able to paint the well aluminum without getting any overspray on the spar, or why anyone should even attempt such a thing. Dana Dana Bell Mustang subassys... Fri Oct 1, 2004 15:22 160.111.69.104 A good thought, but not backed by photos of the production line. The wheel wells were not actually subassemblies - they were just spaces for the wheels. The top of the well was the inside of the skin, as was the bottom. The back was the spar - everything else was gear-related or a rib. The spar was painted with yellow zinc chromate prior to construction of the wing. Any other finish was applied during construction. Cheers, Dana Dana Bell Mustang wells... Fri Oct 1, 2004 09:03 160.111.69.104 Sorry to leave that post without details - I've added an explanation above. You're right that the effect was the result of the production process. I was distinguishing between unpainted aluminum and aluminum lacquer - two different processes in manufacturing and two different effects in modeling. Many modelers probably don't care - after all, we all have to paint the plastic "silver" - but with the wide variety of aluminum finish paints now available there'll be a lot of folks looking for the most accurate effect in their painting. I seem to remember modeling as an easier hobby back in the days when everything got brushed with a coat of Pactra Flat Aluminum - the paint had a grain larger than a silver dollar, but I loved that stuff! Cheers, Dana Dana Bell Anticorrosive colors and P-51s... Tue Aug 27 10:19:29 2002 209.244.225.103 David, There are really three phases of wartime painting of Mustang wheel wells - all related to corrosion control. At first, the metal surfaces were to be painted with one coat of zinc chromate (yellow), one coat of tinted zinc chromate (green), and one coat of aluminized lacquer. This finish appears to have been limited to Allison-engined Mustangs. Two things happened in 1942. First, a shortage of aluminum ended the use of the aluminized lacquer and forced the reformulation of green zinc chromate. (This led to the use of other colors for wheel wells and struts - for example the Neutral Gray on Lightings and Bronze Green on some P-39s and B-29s.) Second, the AAF allowed North American to produce AT-6s, B-25s, and P-51s without primers to ease production. (Boeing got similar permission for its B-17s.) This is what led to the unpainted wheel well noted below. Throughout this period, the wing spar appears to have consistantly carried zinc chromate (yellow) primer. (The primer reduced corrosion where the spar contacted the aluminum sheet and reduced the buildup of static electricity - an important issue with the fuel tanks mounted just aft of the spar.) This combination, as noted below, was common on Bs and Cs, and most Ds and Ks. By 1944, the AAF was receiving complaints about corrosion in a number of aircraft, including the Mustang. Some unspecified action was required, particularly to reduce dissimilar metal corrosion between structural members and skin panels. Some manufacturers gave the structure a coat of yellow zinc chromate before adding the skin. Some left the structure unprimed and gave the inner surface of the skin a coat of yellow zinc chromate. It's not clear how North American handled the problem, but there is one undated color shot of a P-51D (or K) production line showing the entire wheel well primed in yellow. This is just a general explanation - it won't help you know what color the wheel wells would be on any particular aircraft. But you can make your own informed decisions based on the date you suspect any particular aircraft (and not just a Mustang) was manufactured. Cheers, -Dana Dana Bell Green Zinc Chromate... Tue Aug 27 10:30:45 2002 209.244.225.103 Brad, Interior Green is the ANA color name for the zinc chromate green mixed from black and zinc chromate yellow. Up until 1942, the zinc chromate green formula also included aluminum paste or powder - this was dropped due to the wartime aluminum shortage. For about a year, each company did some experimentation trying to match zinc chromate green using different tints (though the Navy also used a red tint). In 1943 the ANA colors came along, and after that, Interior Green quickly became standard. -Dana

That looks great, I wish you had a larger picture.

I would guess it's the trumpeter kit?

Of course that's always an option. Still there's no need to be so drastic. If you just follow these 6 simple steps you can get a very nice looking Mustang out of the Airfix kit: 1- Sand the surface to get rid of the raised rivets and get it all smooth. 2- Fill in the appropriate panel lines on the wings (very easy on this kit). 3- Correct the wing dihedral. 4- Correct the wheel struts in order to show the oleos compressed and add brake lines. 5- Close the main wheel doors. 6- Add seat belts. In my opinion these are the minimum steps to get a good Mustang out of this kit, with a good paint job it will look great on the shelf (I guarantee it)! Beyond that you can go as crazy as you want.

In my opinion there's not much you can use from the Trumpy kit. The wheels are a bit better but not fully accurate either. The wings are definitely better on the Airfix kit (Trumpy's are too small) but they have no dihedral at all and you'll need to create a spar to remedy that. The wheel wells need to be built from scratch. The cockpit needs a lot of work (but is much better than Trumpy's). If you want a different canopy you'll have to make one. The panel lines are a bit heavy and need to be toned down (as well as some rescribing in places for accuracy and general surface work). That's the bulk of it but far more detail work needs to be done to get an accurate P-51D. The overall shape and dimensions of the Airfix kit are good but pretty much every part will require some serious work. It all depends on how accurate a Mustang you want in the end. You need to do your own research, look at a lot of pictures and draw your own conclusions about what needs change or not. My advice is to start by choosing which aircraft you want to build and find pictures of it, that will help your build a lot. There's not a lot for this kit when it comes to aftermarket items. Waldron makes some placards for the cockpit but most of these would only be accurate for later models which for the most part didn't serve during WWII (you can still use some though). They also make bezels and instruments which will be useful to remake the instrument panel (the one in the kit is only good for the P-51D-5). Contact Resin makes some nice exhausts but they don't come with a shroud. They also make wheels but they stink. In conclusion this kit need a lot of work but is also the only option for a reasonably accurate Mustang. Following the 1/32 build of Ironwing and asking specific questions will get you some answers but you also need to do your own research, no one will give you an exhaustive list of what needs to be done, it would take much too long to compile.

Looks like Laurent is right. I hadn't checked the part before (will do tonight) relying instead on poor photographs (such as the one I posted last page) which can be tricky. I will need to investigate a little further, I recall pictures of an aircraft during restoration showing this part to be a metal plate with an opening onto the wing surface. I guess the canvas covers could have been placed on top of that, or the restoration in question was a little more "imaginative" than I previously thought. For modeling purposes however the canvas cover seems like the way to go.

I'm looking forward to your pictures. The old Airfix kit is better but far from perfect. The weirdest thing is that I like the way the Trumpeter big Mustang looks, it's full of inaccuracies yet it's "Beefy Mustang" look is kinda attractive.

Weird! I can see the pictures fine. Sounds like a computer problem, maybe an LSPer with some computer experience (in other words not me) can help out?

De rien cher ami.