Recon Bf 109G

[MustangManiac]

Hi guys,

 

I want to do some research and kinda pick all your brains a bit and see what info I can find. I'm wanting to build a Bf109G-6/R3 or a G-4/R3 recon bird with the dual drop tanks. I have a Cutting Edge Bf 109 recon conversion set and two 300 L drop tanks to add on, what I'm looking for is a good shot of a real recon Bf109 that shows its markings. So far all of the shots I've found are taken at an angle where the wing blocks out the side of the fuselage and you can't see any of its markings, but you can confirm it has the two drop tanks. I'd appreciate any help you can give me on finding markings. So far the closest I've come to finding markings has been in another forum describing when Ian Blair shot one down over Scapa Flow. It is described as being a Bf 109G-6/R3 with wk nr 20357 marked as A6+XH. I mainly need help on a paint scheme here and help knowing if these would all be full sized letters or some smaller in size and whether these ID letters would all be carried under the wings.

 

Thanks in advance,

Brady

[Hartmann352]

Not sure how much help I am able to be, but here goes.
 
From the "Wings of Fame" series, Volume 11, the article Messerschmitt Bf 109, Part 2: the later variants
 
On page 67.
 
"Many G-4s were issued to reconnaissance units, some ad Bf 109G-4/U3s with MW-50 water-methanol boosting. A specialist reconnaissance variant was the Bf 109G0-4/R3, which was a long range sub-variant with racks for two 300-litre tanks under the wings and a single Rb 50/30 or Rb 75/30 camera in the rear fuselage. the MG 17 machine -guns were removed and the muzzle troughs faired over. At least one G-4 was given a trials  installation of three MG 151/20 cannon gondolas, with one mounted on the centerline."
 
.....and I was able to dig this up.

http://static.twoday.net/FLYINGART/images/Messerschmitt-Bf-109-G-4-R3-NAGr-11.jpg

(I know, not much.)

Later in the same issue, on page 78, under "conversion kits".

Rustzustande designations for the G-6 included the R2 and R3 tactical reconnaissance platforms, with camera installations similar to those of the G-4., while the standard range of the Rustsatze was available, including R1 (centerline ETC 500 bomb rack), R3 (centerline drop tank), and R6 (underwing MG 151/20s) The suffix 'Y' was applied to aircraft fitted with FuG 16ZY radio (with a whip antenna under the fuselage), this equipment allowing ground commands to control aircraft in the air. It was consequently usually fitted to the aircraft of unti leaders."

Looking for the R1, produced this, with an odd wheel.

http://www.wehrmacht-history.com/images/luftwaffe/fighters/messerschmitt-bf-109-g-2-r1-fighter-1.jpg

Nothing that I was able to come up with quickly for the R3, and regarding the R6, there seems to be plenty out there with the gondolas. (Even good ole Red 13, Feldwebel Heinrich Bartels.)

Hope this can be of some help.

Cheers,

Dave


 

[Zero77]

I was also looking for pictures of a quite similar stuff, pictures of Bf-109H recon over Normandy. But i cant find any picture of the aircraft. I'm especially interested by the scheme, i've seen some models (in smaller scale) in an all RLM-76 scheme and it's really good looking, but i'd prefer to have solid reference.

[thierry laurent]

Hello,

 

You won't find easily pictures of the elusive Bf-109H as, AFAIK, none of a production plane has ever been released. There are just some rare ops reports stating that the B109"H" had been used and this led to the conclusion that the prototype airframe(s) was/were indeed used operationally. BTW some will consider that such a conclusion is a little bit far-fetched...

 

The best reference I found about such planes is an article written by J-C Mermet in the July 2008 (issue 5) of the French Aero journal magazine. This article also had one or two profiles re-constructed from the aforementioned information.

 

HTH

 

Thierry

[MustangManiac]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for your input. I now want to add all the photos I've found so far of these recon birds with two drop tanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are all but one of my reference photos other than the one you posted a link to of "Yellow 6". Do any of you guys know if "Yellow 6" was a real bird or if that was just a made up set of markings? Thanks again for all the information so far.

 

Brady

[MustangManiac]

Here's my last photo, it's kinda a repeat of the fourth one above, but it's the bottom plane in this photo. I kinda think my first three pictures are taken at the same place if not the same bird, but I don't know this officially for sure.

 

 

Enjoy the photos,

Brady

[Zero77]

Hello,

 

You won't find easily pictures of the elusive Bf-109H as, AFAIK, none of a production plane has ever been released. There are just some rare ops reports stating that the B109"H" had been used and this led to the conclusion that the prototype airframe(s) was/were indeed used operationally. BTW some will consider that such a conclusion is a little bit far-fetched...

 

The best reference I found about such planes is an article written by J-C Mermet in the July 2008 (issue 5) of the French Aero journal magazine. This article also had one or two profiles re-constructed from the aforementioned information.

 

HTH

 

Thierry

 

Thanks Thierry,

So i will ask directly to JC (on a french forum), if he could give me a few clues about the scheme of this aircraft.

[mattlow]

Someone was meant to have a couple of photos of the H aircraft. That was years ago and they never surfaced (were going to be in a new book on Luft recon a/c).

 

I have the AZee conversion to an H for the Revell kit and will do it as a test aircraft.  Likely was a G-5 (?) taken from production lines and given the new centre section and Me 209 type tail. Question would be, would new parts get paint job of RLM 02 or camo to fit with that already on the G-5 airframe?

 

Until any photos appear, we can only speculate by looking at other Messerschmitt versuchs aircraft. There's a couple of good threads about this (these?) H aircraft on the LEMB (Luftwaffe Experten Message Board)... Very clear they existed, some evidence one was used for PR of the D-Day beaches (and poss shot down by German flak!)... but no info on what this a/c looked like..

 

Matt

 

PS, going back to original poster's question, a look at Mark Haldiman's Flikr photostream may yield some images.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03

Edited July 30, 2014 by mattlow

[Zero77]

According to the profiles, the test bf109-H wears a camo.

But i've read different things, for instance that the stabs were larger and that there was stabs struts (as on the Stukas). There are some drawings of this version but i cant find any version. And i dont even known what this version is, nor if the version depicted on the pictures was the definitive design or not....

Very few known of the H...

Edited July 30, 2014 by Zero77

[mattlow]

Yes, without a photo or detailed description we are almost in 'what if' territory...

 

Matt

[MustangManiac]

I'm not too interested in a version of the Bf 109 we're not even sure it existed this time I'm just trying to find more info on a real bird that was used in WWII so I have a real set of markings for a Bf 109G-4/R3 or a Bf 109G-6/R3. I am curious if anyone knows whether "Yellow 6" was a real Bf109's markings or not. I've just kinda hit a brick wall and need more help.

 

Thanks,

Brady