Israeli early F-4E Phantom intake question

[Collin]

5 hours ago, Dave Williams said:

Fun fact, according to the book “Ghosts of Atonement”, Kurnass 109 flew as 609 during the war.  At the time, individual aircraft used a two digit code with a squadron prefix code.  6 was 201 Squadron’s prefix code, so their squadron aircraft 09 was numbered 609.  Unfortunately, three other squadrons (69,107, and 119) all used 1 as a prefix, so there were some duplicates like both 107 and 119 squadron had a Kurnass 141.  The YKM marked 109 was actually a 69 squadron aircraft.

 

To confuse things more, after the war, they redid the prefixes by whether the aircraft had slats or not.  Those without slats used the 1 prefix, and those with slats used the 2 prefix.  So, 201 squadron’s 609 became 109 because it didn’t have slats, and 69 squadron’s 109 became 209 because it had slats.  3 was used for emergency war replacements and 4 was used for the RF-4Es.

 

The book photos show that during the war, 201 Squadron’s “109” (marked 609 during the war) had the short gun muzzle and no light strips.  This was the aircraft that had the 7 kills.

 

The aircraft marked as 109 during the war (and 209 after) was a 69 Squadron aircraft with the long gun muzzle, light strips, and slats.

That’s a great book, a must have for anyone interested in the YKW air conflict and Phantom. 

 

Cheers

Collin

[aircommando130]

The IAF probably has the most confusing system of aircraft numbering of anybody!

But the F-4 in that desert paint looked "badass" and they definitely knew how to 

use it in aerial combat...along with their f-15/F-16 and now F-35. 

I have that book too...up next on my read list!

 

Cheers...Ron 

[Padubon]

22 hours ago, aircommando130 said:

The IAF probably has the most confusing system of aircraft numbering of anybody!

But the F-4 in that desert paint looked "badass" and they definitely knew how to 

use it in aerial combat...along with their f-15/F-16 and now F-35. 

I have that book too...up next on my read list!

 

Cheers...Ron 

Indeed!

[Padubon]

On 12/2/2020 at 11:13 PM, Dave Williams said:

Fun fact, according to the book “Ghosts of Atonement”, Kurnass 109 flew as 609 during the war.  At the time, individual aircraft used a two digit code with a squadron prefix code.  6 was 201 Squadron’s prefix code, so their squadron aircraft 09 was numbered 609.  Unfortunately, three other squadrons (69,107, and 119) all used 1 as a prefix, so there were some duplicates like both 107 and 119 squadron had a Kurnass 141.  The YKM marked 109 was actually a 69 squadron aircraft.

 

To confuse things more, after the war, they redid the prefixes by whether the aircraft had slats or not.  Those without slats used the 1 prefix, and those with slats used the 2 prefix.  So, 201 squadron’s 609 became 109 because it didn’t have slats, and 69 squadron’s 109 became 209 because it had slats.  3 was used for emergency war replacements and 4 was used for the RF-4Es.

 

The book photos show that during the war, 201 Squadron’s “109” (marked 609 during the war) had the short gun muzzle and no light strips.  This was the aircraft that had the 7 kills.

 

The aircraft marked as 109 during the war (and 209 after) was a 69 Squadron aircraft with the long gun muzzle, light strips, and slats.

Will it be possible for you to take pictures of the book 109 pictures?

 

[aircommando130]

This is an absolute fantastic IAF F-4E....

 

Ed Okun "Modeling Military History": 1/32nd scale Tamiya F-4E Phantom II of the Israeli Air Force #119 squadron in 1973 (edokunscalemodelingpage.blogspot.com)

[aircommando130]

Jennings...The gauges and the Mustang are awesome!

[thierry laurent]

For a different view of the contents and the reasons behind the Israeli bombing campaign of 1973, I highly recommend the "1973: the first nuclear war" Helion small book written in collaboration by Tom Cooper  and an Egyptian historian. At last this gives some more logical reasons to explain why the IAF put such a pressure to bomb some highly defended bases that did not show immediately any true strategic value. According to the book, the risk of nuclear war was far higher than ever written and the main motive justifying the bombing campaign was the need to annihilate the risk of Egyptian use of SCUD missiles with nuclear heads... This is very interesting as this compliments quite well and gives another view of the analysis made by Israeli authors.

[Collin]

1 hour ago, thierry laurent said:

For a different view of the contents and the reasons behind the Israeli bombing campaign of 1973, I highly recommend the "1973: the first nuclear war" Helion small book written in collaboration by Tom Cooper  and an Egyptian historian. At last this gives some more logical reasons to explain why the IAF put such a pressure to bomb some highly defended bases that did not show immediately any true strategic value. According to the book, the risk of nuclear war was far higher than ever written and the main motive justifying the bombing campaign was the need to annihilate the risk of Egyptian use of SCUD missiles with nuclear heads... This is very interesting as this compliments quite well and gives another view of the analysis made by Israeli authors.

Read it. Interesting and different view on some of the F-4 operations. Seemed “slanted” and opinion based in some respects but gets the reader thinking of why repeated strikes were undertaken. I also thought ‘Ghosts of Atonement” was pretty critical of the IAF and their use of the F-4 during the war, both on a strategic and tactical level. 

 

That 1960-1970 timeframe gives us modelers a great variety of subjects to choose from. 

 

That build above is a is a great resource. I just need to get off my tail and pull out my 1/48 Pro Modeler hard wing F-4E and aftermarket CBUs and build it. 

 

Collin

[aircommando130]

Get with it mister! Or you'll get the "proper motivation" from Gunnery Sgt. Hartman!

 

Cheers...Ron