A6M2 color scheme

[mywifehatesmodels]

Getting back to the can of worms;

 

I know that there is info indicating that the overall "light grey" that we have always taken as being correct, is in fact a light green/grey, or even a pea green. In many of the pictures I have seen I can say that it is very likely. However, I have seen just as many pictures, especially of the model 11 and early 21s, that are certainly a lighter color. You would never convince me that they were actually light green, as they are a much lighter shade. That's just my .02 and I'm always one to vote in favor of building/painting things in a way that seems/looks right to me.

 

Now as for the shape of the 1/24 Trumpeter kit, I have seen the areas of the cowl and fuselage in front of the windscreen where there are shape issues. Others have mentioned also that the middle of the fuselage is too thick. I can't see that myself. Has anyone compared this to an accurate plan drawing? I know someone grafted the fuselage section from a Bandai kit into the Trumpeter kit and stated that it fit almost perfectly. Well, if that is the case, how could one be wrong and the other right? Anyone have any input on this? I would love to know, as I have this kit in the stash and may even want to tackle the Rufe someday as well. But, maybe this should be in a different post.

 

Thanks,

John

[David_Aiken]

The Japanese used M1 gray-GREEN (Hairyokushoku) on the famed A6M2 model 11 and the A6M2 model 21 (including the ones with the hanging aileron balances).

 

Here is a nice folded wing tip showing the M1 gray-GREEN:

 

 

 

Here is a M1 sample from the Zero which crashed at Kaneohe NAS on 7 Dec 1941:

 

 

Both images were posted at the TOP Japanese WWII research URL:

FUKU's BBS

HTH,

David Aiken

[DrDave]

HMMM. a broken link to fuku bbs......

Me thinky you pissy taker no?

[G. Springer]

Hello Gents,

 

If you are going to paint an early Zero A6M2b Type 21, try to find out if it was built by Mitsubishi or Nakajima. The Zeros at Pearl Harbor were all Mitsubishis. Nakajima started to make Zeros in Nov. 1941 and soon was the sole producer of them as Mitsu went on to produce A6M3 Type 32's. The Mitsubishi birds at Pearl Harbor had greenish khaki metal external surfaces with gray cloth ailerons, elevators and rudder. Samples of these can be seen here:

 

 

These artifacts were provided through the kindness of Jim Lansdale.

 

The cockpit of Lt. Iida's plane matches FS 34095 Model Master enamel Medium Field Green.

Mixing 20 parts Model Master SAC Bomber Tan FS 34201 with 11 parts White FS 37875 will give a close match to the metal greenish khaki coating.

Mix 105 drops of Tamiya Sky Grey with 15 drops of Light Sea Grey and 20 drops of Khaki for the cloth surface color.

Both these mixes must be covered with the clear gloss of your choice. IJN planes were painted in glossy lacquers, NOT matte.

 

The Nakajima-built Zero s/n 646 shot down on Midway had metal surfaces in a very yellowish khaki with gray cloth surfaces as seen here:

 

 

 

These artifacts came from Harry Ferrier via Tom Matlosz who kindly loaned them to me for study.

 

Mix 100 drops of Model Master enamel Field Drab FS 30118 with 48 drops of White FS 37875 and 10 drops of Insignia Yellow FS 33538 for the metal surfaces coating.

Mix 100 drops of Model Master Light Sea Gray FS 36307 with 13 drops of Aggressor Gray FS 36251 and 1 drop of Insignia Red FS 31136 for the cloth surfaces coating.

I am working on making mixes for all of these colors in Tamiya paints. It is going to take a few more weeks.

The cockpit of the Midway Zero is just slightly darker than that of Lt. Iida's Zero.

For an article on how to correct the Trump Zero please go here:

 

Zero Article

 

It won't be easy.

 

I will post instructions on how to mix Aotake translucent greens and blues in my next post.

 

Cheers!

 

Greg

[G. Springer]

Hi again,

 

I have developed a method for reproducing the colors known in Japanese as "aotake" which means 'blue' or 'young' bamboo. This lacquer was used by the Imperial Japnese Navy for interior corrosion control on their aircraft. It was made from phenolic resin, the first modern plastic resin synthesized by Leo Hendrik Baekeland of Belgium in 1906. It was marketed as plastics as well under the trade name Bakelite. It could be dyed different colors for jewelry or, if mixed with very fine sawdust and baked in a mold, produced insulation material used in electronic equipment.

Aotake could be dyed with either blue, green or a mixture of the two colors. The basic resin was a dark brown tone. It protected very well against moisture but deteriorated quickly in direct sunlight. For this reason it was covered by green or gray-green paints in the cockpit areas. As you see from this collection of Zero artifacts it could range up to almost black in color depending on how much dye was added and how thick it was applied:

 

 

These artifacts were kindly loaned to me for study by Ryan Toews, Jim Lansdale and Tom Matlosz.

 

Aotake was applied to parts of the airframe before it was riveted together. You will see pictures of fuselage interiors where the ribs were painted darker than the inner surfaces of the skin. In the early war period aotake was applied pretty thick. As the war went on, it got thinner and thinner until in the last year of the war it was left off entirely.

 

I use Alclad II and Tamiya translucent paints to reproduce aotake finish. Alclad has recently added the same translucent colors to its line and I will be working with these in the future.

 

First paint the surface with a primer to protect the plastic from the Alclad II which would melt it if the primer was not present. I like to use White Aluminum shade F as it has the brightest reflectance. You could also use any silver or alumiunum paints in lieu of Alclad.

 

The Tamiya clear green and blue paints are very bright in tone. Too bright to accurately depict the aotake. I mix them with the Smoke to tone them down. One mix I used was 2 parts Green, 8 parts Blue and 11 parts Smoke. I find the green to be a very strong color so I use small amounts of it compared with the others. As you can see from the photo, you can chose your shades by experimenting with differerent mixes and using the ones you like!

 

I hope you find this useful.

 

Cheers!

 

Greg

[David_Aiken]

Hi Greg,

The formula mix for Olive Drab in WWII is a mix of 50% yellow and 50% black. The differences in Olive Drab is which yellow and which black! Boeing had a sub-contract for Olive Drab as did North American, Lockheed, or Consolidated...yet we do not use the terms "Boeing Olive Drab" or "Lockheed Olive Drab"...we just understand that there are problems in the batches of Olive Drab.

 

R. Watanabe was quite firm in stateing that Japanese aircraft manufacturer's did NOT have their 'own' paint...thus there is no "Nakajima" or "Mitsubishi" gray-GREEN, just different batches....just like Olive Drab.

 

The difference between the "Nakajima" Midway relic and the "Mitsubishi" Iida relic is just different batches of gray-GREEN.

 

The Zeros used at Pearl Harbor were "flight restricted" (no quick dives, speed restricted to keep the ailerons attached) and had the 'quick fix' of hanging aileron balances. As soon as the internal fix was made, the front line IJN units received new UNrestricted Zeros. The high ace T. Iwamoto cited the receipt of his new Zuikaku Zero in January 1942. Soryu leader Iyozo Fujita got his new BI-151 when in the Celebes in March 1942. Tainan Kokutai got theirs when they arrived to Lae, New Guinea.

 

Within this new shipment of Zeros to Tainan Kokutai, one was recovered by the Australians in New Guinea in early May 1942...coded V-110. THAT Zero's fuselage/wings was NOT painted with the M1 gray-GREEN (Hairyokushoku)...but it was painted with J3 GRAY (Hai-iro).

 

Similar to US manufacture methods, the rudder was SUB-contracted. The sub-contractor was ahead of the main plant. The stock pile of Zero rudders were painted in M1 gray-GREEN...and the new unrestricted Zeros had to have the rudders over painted with J3 GRAY (Hai-iro). The Australian investigator cited that the intermediate color on the rudder was similar to the RAF/RAAF "Sky". V-110 report.

 

Have you seen the LATE A6M2 which was pulled off the production line to be modified into a prototype A6M3? It, too, is painted J3 Gray (Hai-iro): LATE A6M2 now A6M3

 

Hummm, new for the gray cells?

Cheers,

David Aiken

[DrDave]

gosh what a can of worms!

 

Greg and Dave, what do you think of the colour scheme in the photo?

[Vernon]

MyWifeHatesModels,

 

The probability is that the RAF ATAIU Zero's in the picture were captured in Malaya. There is an brilliant picture of two Jacks in the same colour scheme and markings whcih were captured in southern Malaya. J-Aircraft also have a photo of an NMF A6M5 Type 52 in RAF roundels which is what my Tamy Zero will end up as...

 

Nites I've seen in Aero-detail for the Zero state that the British applied Dark Earth over the IJN Green top surfaces to further dissuade friendly pilots from shooting them down.

[DrDave]

Hows that Avenger Vernon?

[G. Springer]

Hello Buchon,

 

I'm sorry but I haven't worked with any Humbrol paints for making these mixes. Humbrol's Ochre # 83 or Khaki # 26 would be good places to start on the yellowish khaki color which is close to FS 16160 and Munsell 2.5Y 5/3. As for the greenish khaki, I don't have a clue where to start in the Humbrol line.

 

Greg

[G. Springer]

Hi dpogson,

 

The Zero in the front is, I think, the one which is now partially in the Imperial War Museum in London. The curving demarcation between upper side and lower side colors between the trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer means it was a Nakajima-built bird. I stood next to it one afternoon 21 years ago and took some photos. It is indeed overpainted with a dark earth color. You can also see the topside dark green and the grey-green beneath everything. Being late war production, this Zero has no red primer on the airframe, except the canopy. It was painted overall with a gray-green paint and then the dark green upper side color. It has almost no aotake in the non-coclpit area of the fuselage that survives. It's engine and cowling are in storage somewhere else in England but I forget where.

 

Cheers!

 

Greg

[G. Springer]

Hi Gents,

 

If you are confused as to what David is talking about, here is a little background. Last year a mysterious gentleman in Japan, known only as "Mr. Summer", revealed the existence of two complete, original color standards. The first, an early war product, is called Kariki 117. The second, from February 1945, is called Kokaku 8609. The Kariki document assigned alphanumeric designations to each color group. So the M group is gray-greens, the J group is grays, the I group is khakis which the Japanese are calling 'tsuchi' = 'clay' colors, etc. These have been compared with an excellent fan deck produced by the Japanese Paint Manufacturer's Association called "JPMA Standard Paint Colors 2005-C". A blade fron that deck appears in one of David's pictures. Summer-san has posted comparisons of all of the Kariki colors on Fuku-san's BBS. Because of the previous dearth of information, there is a long-running controversy over this and that color. David is currently championing the ideas he has put forth in his post. I will not be participating in these controversies on this forum except to say that if the Midway Zero metal coating is gray-green, I will eat my hat. If you are interested in following The Great Japanese Aircraft Color Nomenclature Feud to to Fuku's Photo BBS at:

 

Fuku's BBS

 

or to www.j-aircraft.com on the Navy Aircraft discussion group.

 

Thank you, and remember the wise words of Meister Floyd Werner: "Modelling is supposed to be fun!"

 

Cheers!

 

Greg

[David_Aiken]

One of my sensei, Kenji Miyazaki, traveled to Imperial War Museum, London, and gained unprecedented access to the A6M5 on exhibit. Many of his DETAILED photos are posted at: Kenji Miyazaki visit to IWM's A6M5

 

One of the bunch of 35mm slides which are NOT at the above, I have posted at: IWM A6M5 has J3 GRAY lower surface

 

BE AWARE: The exterior of the plane, including the yellow IFF stripes and dark green upper surface, was overpainted by the RAF with "Air Ministry (RAF) Dark Earth".

 

Cheers,

David Aiken

[David_Aiken]

Aloha All,

The same American references were used by the "Blayd" folk and the USAF Museum folk. Those references are challenged by my Sensei. I am only a messenger...who gets shot so much I feel like Detective Fearless Fosdick!

Cheers,

David

[DrDave]

David, the link to the IWM visit doesnt work