Roy vd M.

Correct measurements of bomb rack Sorry I made a few calculation errors earlier. The plan is not accurate. New plan, corrections in red: Overview of corrections: Horizontal: 3.57mm. -> 3.59mm. 6.61mm. -> 6.58mm. 3.57mm. -> 3.59mm. Vertical: 3.11mm. -> 3.09mm. 4.07mm. -> 4.04mm. 5.21mm. -> 5.17mm. 5.21mm. -> 5.17mm. 5.21mm. -> 5.17mm. 3.56mm. -> 3.53mm. Diameter of one hole: 4.12mm. -> 4.10mm. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Thanks for the tutorial! You make everything sound so... well ehm... doable.

Nice, thanks!

Hi Volture, you may find the answer here: http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=48155&p=533293

Incredible! First: good to see that someone admits to spending so many hours working on a model. I keep reading "40 hours" / "60 hours" and maximum "150 hours" in the German magazines. Beautiful finish, looks like 200 hours work but they say it's 100 hours only? Makes me feel a bit insecure. Good to see the 355 number for a change. And it shows. Do you have interior closeups? Very intelligent weathering choices. Looks frighteningly realistic. I'm a fan.

Here you can see the inside L-strips: http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=33650&p=351685

Perhaps I will try soldering one day and probably on this kit, but the bomb bay is not the right place to do that mainly because of the paintwork. Unfortunately the inside has to be painted before being put together. But maybe I will use soldering (my girlfriend knows how to do that and there is a good topic explaining everything somewhere on the forum) for example on the landing gear bay. I do look forward to seeing the canopy work on your Ju 88. Have seen a 88 at the RAF museum a few weeks ago and it sure is an impressive plane as well. Too few mid-sized bombers being modelled right now, I'd love to see another build thread.

A pic says more than words. This is what I mean:

Thanks Paul for the advice, but I most probably won't solder them together. The reason is that I can't solder, I have a trauma from soldering in highschool and am afraid I'm gonna ruin my hard work. Also soldering is not necessary per se, because I'll simply use the internal L-pieces as connectors (just like the real deal). Also I'm afraid that if I were to solder the pieces together it would influence the paintjob I'll already have done on the inside.

Scratchbuilding a Heinkel 111 bomb bay - part 9 When having the template parts prepared it's quite easy to make the pieces to be used in the actual model. Again thanks to Heavens Eagle (Paul) for the idea of superglueing the template onto the new sheet. I tried using tape and I tried pushing the parts strongly together when scribing the outlines to be removed, but it just didn't work, especially for the smaller reinforcement parts. I used Pattex Gold Gel for the task and that seems to be a golden gamble as the scribing can be done perfectly AND the parts can be detached quite easily by means of a knife. Use only a small drop of glue. After detaching the parts, the glue can be easily removed by scraping it off with a blade. When glued, use a hobby knife to gently outline the area to be removed. Then detach template from new part, scrape away the glue and start scribing more fiercely (but be very accurate). Then follow the method as set out in the previous 'scratchbuilding' post. I've finished all template pieces for the side wall and have made one copy that looks like this: Here the template, the copy and my most important reference photo: For the front panel (with the vent holes) I'm awaiting the shipment of a brand new punch & die set, having a steel basis especially made for punching brass. Time spent building, planning, drawing plans: 76H. Studying: 43H.

Great figure Brian! Trying to absorb all the things I learn on this forum, including making those figures.

Almost forgot... the measurements of the bottom horizontal strip as seen on the last picture (they are not on the plan!): - Strip measures 1.69mm x 13,75mm. - 4 holes for the screws to attach to the plane. From left to right, the length between the holes: 0.88mm, 4.0mm., 4.0mm., 4.0mm., 0.88mm. All on the center line. - Each hole is measured to be, on scale, 0.34mm in diameter. I used a 0.3mm drill and after making the hole held the drill sideways very slightly while making a circle. Should be about right now. I'll add these numbers to a previous post containing the scan of the plan.

That is 100% for sure too much credit for me. As you can see very clearly in the thread I constantly have to correct myself and my methods are often improved due to suggestions by more experienced modelers than I such as Heavens Eagle. What I do think is a special feature of this thread is that I'm writing down every single step I make, not only the triumph moments but also the mistakes, and I don't delete anything. This way people get to see all the aspects of trying to build a model from a novice's point of view. Ah nice, a new follower! I think my talent is that I can be very patient and won't stop until I find a good solution. And apparently if someone hands a better solution I'll have the patience to do it all over. And I study a LOT and make a step plan for myself before trying to tackle something. For the rest all you need is trying desperately to replicate something. Thanks for the nice compliment!

Small update to show an L-bent sheet piece at the bottom of the side wall of a bomb cell that isn't there in the Eduard set (although partly present in another part and nicely done at that!). Usually not necessary also, because it can't be seen when the bomb cell is (as usual) installed in the plane. But when taken out, it has to be made. Her it is:

They are too large indeed. Maybe they did this so that the interior becomes better visible through the 'windows' / hatches. See here part of my main reference image as regards measurements: Well there are MANY things not present in the Eduard set but they can all be scratched fairly easily. I'll show their builds in a further part of my scratchbuild series And there are slits that shouldn't be there. And there are only 4 keyholes per cell where in reality it should be 8. Etc. All very understandable but when scratched it can be made better. I personally don't like the self adhesive PE they put out. The adhesive is gooey and this type of "stick-um" loses it's grip over time. In additionif you need to bend a part that has the glue, it can be a problem. On the Ju 88 I am building (sorry no posts yet, but lots of photos taken) The instrument panel has a bend on the lower left side. With the glue this is a problem to deal with. I figured out that the glue can be carefully scraped off and a gentle wipe with a "DAMP" swab with a little paint thinner to get the residue off. Too much and you could possibly damage the printing on the front. I agree, I'd never use the sticking-on way again. On the next picture you can see that the topright photo etch part (that was attached about one year before taking that picture) had sagged. Next time I'll try to remove the adhesive and glue it on. I'll keep your warning in mind. Very curious to see the Ju88 progress by the way. Oh, while on front panel PE, they show just putting the front piece on top of the back instrument faces part. Looks OK that way but thought something was missing. Had some very thin clear sheet and put it between the 2 parts and WOW! It gave the glass reflection over the dials AND some depth to the instruments. Made a BIG difference with the look. To adjust for all that thickness just thin the plastic panel part a lot and it will be fine. Nice, I'll try that. I've been reading everywhere that the usual method is to add a drop of Klear or other floor polisher. Because of the photoetch layers I'll try your solution first. THanks for your nice comment on the Seimens Schuckert Roy! That kit just got put to the side a I was working on another (Really POOR) kit and is still boxed away from my move. Thanks for the drawing! I will make a nice CAD version soon and send you a copy to use. Glad that my suggestion was helpful. It just seemed that you were making it harder on yourself than it needed to be and wanted to help. You're welcome and thanks again

Paul, maybe you shouldn't write off he Eduard bomb bay. After having taken a look at this incredible post of yours: http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=44240&p=461726 I'm going to have to take these words back. Yes you probably ARE going to build the 111 bomb bay from scratch

And another advantage of the "Heavens Eagle-method" is that it simply saves me money, because I'll get more bomb cells out of one sheet.

Thanks Paul and Derek for your -very- kind words. Paul, maybe you shouldn't write off he Eduard bomb bay. Certainly certain parts of it can be used (for example, the bomb doors cluster seems quite accurate, as do the bomb holders) and usually all of this would not be seen very well. There are only the two windows and, if you leave out the doors (or, like me, if you will have the doors opened) also from the cockpit windows if you look carefully. From the 2nd gunner's turret hole very little of the bomb room can be seen, I already tested that. I first wanted to superdetail these bomb racks because I just wanted to practice. I'm a novice builder so I can use all the practice I can get. But then I decided that I wanted to show the details of the 1st bulkhead. However the bomb racks were standing in the way. After a lot of thought eventually I decided to remove 4 bomb cells from the bomb room. They will be individually seen in the diorama I'll do. So now I have no choice but to detail them as well as I can. I also wanted to practice riveting and when I first compared the real life bomb cell pictures with the Eduard part I was confused, as there would be NO WAY I'd be able to position four rivets horizontally in a row on the very narrow strip along the octagonal hole. Only when I found better pictures I saw what was wrong. So also for my riveting practicing I needed a better version (originally I simply wanted to put the raised rivets on the recessed rivets but the recessed rivets turn out to be too plentiful and in the wrong places). So if you're not a rivetcounter that's another reason to just go with the Eduard bay. That having said, it would be wonderful if my thread could inspire a single person to do something like this as well. I'll keep doing my best to write down everything I learn underway and hopefully if you'll decide to scratch the bomb bays you'll be able to make use of it. When you do, remember that in the first post of this thread I made an index. All my scratchbuilding posts are listed in the correct order. So when I'll be detailing the wings and we've come to page #100 of this thread you'll still be able to find where the respective posts are. Scratchbuilding a Heinkel 111 bomb bay - part 8 How to build a bomb cell - the improved method. Thanks to Heavens Eagle (Paul) for the idea to not make a part with four walls in one but to split it (I won't split it in 2 but in 4), this gives a number of improvements: - The punch & die needs not die. - No folding necessary, thus maximum chance it will fit. Alignment should not be too much of a problem. - In case of a tiny mistake, only 25% is lost, compared to the earlier method. - Painting will be easier. - No need to bend the parts while painting, no need to build a jig. - Each part can be detailed externally before painting. - Painting of each interior side can be done individually. - Easier fitting the square horizontal interior parts. - Less chance to unintentionally bend areas of the part that I'm not currently working on. And probably more. After that thought I got another thought, regarding the cutting out of the octagonal hole. Using a jigsaw doesn't work. Using a file bends it and isn't too accurate. Cutting it with a knife leaves a curve in the sheet. Scribing it endlessly is just bound to fail because of inaccuracy and it will always need to be filed afterward. Pushing with a knife simply bends the whole thing. Bending it to/forth/to/forth 50 times sometimes work but bends the rest of the sheet slightly. And probably I tried more tools and methods but they all didn't work. Yesterday I found a very workable solution, at least for my purposes. Now that I know it, I'll use it more often. As with many things it's simple but you just have to get the idea before it's simple :-) Together with an idea by my girlfriend it makes an easy and effective method. I'll describe it below. So, my second attempt to write a step plan, this time for the template part. 1. First, do all the measurements. You'll be pleased to see the hereunder drawing where I did this for you. This should be at least 95% accurate and hopefully more (relatively). Absolutely, I started with the eduard base measurement. As Eduard's wall parts are each 13.75 mm. wide AND they seem to fit perfectly in the Revell model (also taken into account the space for wing spars and the cartridge locker which was at the right bulkhead side in a corner (lost on all planes that survived but luckily photographed very well and to be seen in manuals)) AND the height seems to come very close to the real deal, my conclusion is that I won't be very far off. In the hereunder drawing all measurements are in mm. The drawing is 2:1, so twice as large as the part to be built. In most cases there are two mm numbers. One for the part, below between brackets the measurement for the plan. If you want to showcase the bomb cell outside of the plane then below the side wall parts (the one with the octagonal holes) extra horizontal strips have to be made. The measurements of that strip are: - Strip measures 1.69mm x 13,75mm. - 4 holes for the screws to attach to the plane. From left to right, the length between the holes: 0.88mm, 4.0mm., 4.0mm., 4.0mm., 0.88mm. All on the center line. - Each hole is measured to be, on scale, 0.34mm in diameter. I used a 0.3mm drill and after making the hole held the drill sideways very slightly while making a circle. Should be about right now. 2. Take a 0.005 mm. sheet. Yes I chose a thicker one again. It seems that this handles better and a bit of comparing made me realize that it's actually scale-true (the metal of the bomb cells was quite thick). Make sure you have a 90 degrees corner as the position from which to work. Brass sheet doesn't always come nicely cut 90 degrees so maybe you'll have to cut off a bit. From the left side make two scratches with the measuring tool @ 13.75mm, near the top and near the bottom. Position a metal ruler in the right place (check by slipping the point of a hobby knife in both pre-made cuts and trying to move the ruler toward the knife. Doesn't work? Then you have a perfect position. Now hold the ruler tight to the part and scribe. Scribe once more. With a Hold & Fold and two grip bits (two small rulers should do), fold back-forth-back-forth the piece and it will come off neatly. Now mark 56.12 mm. from the bottom (remember what that side of the part is!) left and right. Repeat the marking/folding/snapping off-procedure. 3. Make vertical and horizontal lines with a knife. Not too deep. Measured from the bottom of the piece, the lines should be at 18.96mm, 20.43mm, 38.08mm, 40.41mm, 43.51mm (=future fold line) and 45.16mm. Do likewise with the vertical lines. See drawing for measurements. Of course it's better to measure from both the left side (left scribes) and right side (right scribes) to ensure symmetry. 4. With a scratch pen, make markings near the corners of the lines to be torn off. AND mark a hole where you want a 'cutting point' to be. Then with a 8mm drill, drill the holes. Each cutoff shall be done through folding to-forth-to-forth. So every line to be cut off has to be individualized. Each individual residu part will be folded to-forth-to-forth etc. until it snaps off. To be able to do that, you'll have to create foldable 'borders'. I think of them as the white borders of cardboard houses everyone has made in their youth. There they were meant to glue the different parts together. Now they are used to provide grip to shimmy off the part. Pff difficult to explain in words. Let's see some pictures: The holes near the corners: 5. Connecting the holes with a sharp hobby knife. Now three 'borders' have come into existence. Thanks to my girlfriend for the drilling idea. Important step: after drilling, take out the drill bit and use it as a saw, to reach the end of the corner. That way when snapped off, the part won't leave residue flash. If you drill too far toward the corner you'll run a chance of ruining the piece. 6. Here you can see the folding taken place. Note that on this picture I hadn't 'sawn' the right drill hole to the corner yet. 7. Mark the octagonal hole diagonals (use measurements of the plan, 1st picture). Use the same method as before. 8. Here you can see 10 drilled holes and 9 cuts to connect the holes. This creates 8 'borders'. Now is a good time to scribe the cut lines once more. 9. Use the Hold & Fold (what a machine... so many uses) and just fold to-forth-to-forth each 'border' until it simply snaps off. Repeat this with every single part. With the bow-tie part I didn't do it for the smaller 'borders' as they snapped off easily. Unfortunately one of the diagonals of the bow-tie piece didn't snap off along the correct line so I'll have to make that one again. When I'll do that I will use the Hold & Fold for each 'border' just to be sure. 10. Cut off everything. The result (which already is very satisfactory for me but could have been better if it weren't for the drill holes that can be seen in some corners; hence the 'sawing' with the drill bit): An advantage of this method is that making the piece is considerably easier than when following the previous step plan AND it takes considerably less time too. AND it is much more fun. Time spent building, planning, drawing plans: 73H. Studying: 43H.

Here you can compare the Eduard part and the part as made from hours of measurements of several source pictures including a full frontal view of the side of a non-installed cell. Clearly Eduard didn't have that picture at their disposal, as the cell turns out to be taller than Eduard made it. Also note the thinner and slightly longer octagonal hole. This not only is more realistic in itself, but also makes room for 4 rivets in (horizontal) line on the strips along the octagonal hole. That would never have been possible on the Eduard part. Here on the background is one of the pictures I used to measure:

Hi Paul, after your tip and after a tip of my girlfriend (!) and a bit of thinking myself I now have a great method to making these parts. I'll describe it later. Here a preliminary picture of the result of both the side wall and the bow-tie shaped layer over it. This bow-tie part I'll have to redo by the way, because I made a mistake in the low-right diagonal as you can see. Without the bow-tie picture, here you can see a comparison between the previously made part, the Eduard part and the part made according to the latest-used technique. Thank you SO very much for your input. It looks much better now, is better for the material and is much easier to make.

Thanks, looking forward to it.

Thanks Roy.....the vertical ribs are just plain an simple plastic card.....I put a strip where the rib is to go first (after punching holes with a needle to represent rivets) and then glue on top of that another fine cut strip !...takes some time but works I think Thanks for the reply... however what I mean is the ribs running from top to bottom. So the ones with a wider strip 'on top'. It puzzles me how you achieved the bend in the narrow middle piece. I made a little drawing to show you what I mean. I'm talking about the strip that, on the drawing, is referenced as "this strip". I hope I made the drawing correct.

Thanks Paul, could you use that for cutting out the octagonal part in a neat way?

Exquisite! And thanks for making this lovely diorama just for me

And, indeed, the punch & die needs not be damaged.