blackbetty

lacking pics i think now my C2 has the later wingtips too... a deas giveaway that the palne is a C4 or later is the litlle bump on the front end of the gondola (MG FF ammo chute) the nose is cast really nicely, no bubbles, but the shape is off according to my records, the first kill of rökker with NJG 2 was on june 20th 1942 when he shot down a beaufort over krete

is there an aftremarket one? which of those in kits is the best? and most of all, where can i get one?

this is the profile from the osprey nightfighter aces book, isnt it? those profiles of the C models are all the same regardless what they have written under it i am sure rökker has flown different C models i have tried to compile a list of all the modifications for the C2 in this thread: http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=22867

Thanks matt and guttorm, your help is very much appreciated

i ordered more reference to see if there are any good views of the gun installation, but i'm not very optimistic guttorms C2 misses the gunmount, so no pics there too i think about getting in contact with the RAF museum in hendon, trying to find out if they have any pics of the mount of their R1 (it has the same mount as the earlier C models) anybody done this before? on the other hand i found a pic of the front fairing on the C2 gondola. its different to the later gondolas, because it does not have the ammo chute affixed to it and still retains the glasswindow on the bottom from the A series, both clearly visible in the pic

fantastic work brian!

i managed to find an other shot of the front guns (geschichte der nachtjagd by gebhard aders) this will be the area the most difficult to scratchbuild, even if zthe nose is on, you can see the four guns protuding into the cockpit. since the revell ju88 has a really nice cockpit, these details have to be at least as good. dont know if i will be able to pull it off i think i will use the resin nose as a master and vacform the nose. this because if i want to detail the guns up to the armorplate and this plate is further forward than the beginning of the steel nose if anybody has more shots of the armament system, please share them

have you ever tried gunze? had best results with them (at least with the FS colours of modern jets, not sure how many RLM colours they have)

oops , should have looked closely first now i have seen a C with a short wing (olves second pic)

thanx soo moch guys for all the help one thing to keep in mind with this discussion is, that some series of planes appear to have been redesignated, something i have seen with other german planes and allthough on paper a plane should have had this and that feature, at the factory they often phased in and out modifications that didnt change the designation. a good example is the early fin that appeared until the C6 models. additional are the field modifications, that can never be traced in the designation before the "/". if an R and a number was added it depicted a certain state of modification R meanig "rüstzustand" (roughly: state of equipment). to further confuse things designations were modified by the allies after the war to keep track of what was the equipment of what series of planes: for axample the late G models were designated with a, b or c after the G6 soooooo...... i think its ok to do a C2 with the short wing (allthough i have still to see a pic of a C model with the A1 wing ) the only proof what kind it had would be a pic of the actual plane. hope this makes sense karl

so they had standard cammo? thanx olve

thanx guys i always wondered why there never was talk about the C1, normaly germans dont just omit numbers now i'm a little bit lost guttorm, was the C2 you have a day fighter? in your mail you said it has a A1 bodynumber, so is it possible its a C1? i will post all info i find out

if you have some scrap aluminum, i would be happy to try to use it

nice wooden floor you told me the C2 has an aluminum floor, so how about some aluminum from the real wreck for my build just kidding what kind of paint do you use?

as for the guns: they all had three MG 17s in the nose and eiter a MG FF or MG 151 (/20 i assume), whereas the 151s barrel protruded far out of the nose, its just a lot longer than the FF. no gondola weapons. i still havent seen a closeup of the front part of the gondola, it looks differnt to the C4 and later models, its doesnt seem to have the prominent bulge in the middle. i dont know what that bulge was, but on my cutaway it seems the be the ammochute? (drawing by michael merker©) cant wait to see pics of yours, guttorm

thanx hans, i did order that book allready, will look into the CD

i have one cutaway drawing that shows the weapon installation and one shot of a C6 instrument panel and i'm hoping for pics of guttorms C2

any more pics of C2s (guttorm has promissed to take some pics for me, thanx guttorm) would be grately appreciated, particulary the front part of the gondola and the cockpit you can clearly see the nosearmour on this pic

converting the A-1 to a C2 ist just a matter of sticking a solid nose on and painting the thing black. the good thing is you can keep the A-1 wings (according to guttorm, his C2 is a converted A-1 after the factory tag that is on it), the C4 had the later A-4 wingtips but as far as i could find out, asside from the cockpit interior (a big can of worms opened here) this has to be changed: 1) the front part of the gondola had the bombsight removed and a different fairing but still no weapons and the rear firing MG 15 in place 2) the MG 15 was removed from the front windshield, i have a drawing that has it in place, so maybe the removal was a later update 3) were the divebrakes removed? some were some werent, depends on the timeframe, i have seen a C4 with divebrakes 4) the starboard window behind the nose was changed to a panel with three coolingvents for the MG 17s 5) below the cockpit on the stbd side there was a little hatch for flares and an outlet for the signal pistol 6) the other two little windows on the bottom and the port side, behind the nose all stayed in place (different to the C4 and later versions) 7) there was a single slot for cartridge ejection beside the gondola on the bottom 8) flame dampeners were fitted 9) on some planes there was a field fitted armorplate between nose an windshield, visible from the outside (the front guns fired through another armorplate fitted vertically in front of the pilot) it is very difficult to tell a C2 from an C4 when you dont see the gondola or the wingtips. additionaly there were modifications done throughout the servicelife of the planes which further confuses the matter the pic shows the AIMS nose i just got and had to trial fit

as the title says.... allthough i wanted to concentrate on modern jets (i started the A7), i just had to have the JU 88, my all time favorite WW II plane. but never being happy with a stock kit i want to convert it to a C2, an all black bird from NJG 2 in Gilze-Rijen October 1941. Code R4+KL it was flown by Leutnant Alfons Köster. I have two pics of the fin with 11 kill marks on both sides. in a very short time there are three versions of markings: they subsequently blackened out everything except the K and the killmarks. i allso assume the cross on the top of the wings stayed in place. any pics would be appreciated.

here you go

Thanx loic, I am not trying to fish compliments here, but looking at some other builds here (your kate comes to mind) its just mediochre. On the other hand I was able to learn some more about self made decals and masks. I will try to do a better job next time. Karl

thanx matt and texas, i really appreciate it

PM sent i thought about it some more and the flamedampers over the exhausts were changed from the A-1 too do you know when the plane you have crashed? as far as i know all of the german equipment during WW II was modified and upgraded all the time, so you can really be accurate only if you have a pic where the version you want to model is shown i can imagine the front MG 15 was removed very quickliy if it would have been there from the factory because of the muzzleflash immediately in front of the pilots eyes same with the gondola, maybe the window for the bomsight was faired over later. in the reports from the missions of the NJG 2 night intruders over brittain there are bombs thrown, so maybe it was in place. was it needed anyway or could the pilot just drop the bombs? from these reports it seems these planes had only e three man crew does your C2 have the armorplate that most of the C planes had in front of the canopy? it was field-mounted, so its hard to tell which plane had it sorry for the long post thanx karl

i have just read through all of the 26 pages of this thread and i thank you gutorm for all of your efforts i have had the kit for a couple of weeks now and have taken a peek in the box and must say its gorgeous. i never thought i would build a propeller aircraft again, i wanted to concentrate on vietnam and later jets. but what happens? revell does a kit of my alltime favorite WW II plane :angry: so i first dug up my reference from my first life as a modeler in the 80ies and before. i was doing a couple of 1/72 Ju 88s then, Cs Rs and Gs out of the old revellC and the italerei 188 kits (still got these, not one finished ) i remembered an old quaterly magazine called "flugzeug" from germany. in some issues of 1985/1986 there are a lot of fullpage drawings in explicite detail (72nd scale) of all C,R nad G variants, with all the details of the different versions explained. the author is Michael Merker and they seem to be researched very accurately. i understand this is copyrighted material, so i cant just post these. would you be interrested in some scans of these to compare them with whatever plans you have? it would really interrest me how accurate they are. this brings me to my project: i cant leave good enough alone and want to convert my 88 to a C2. you said you have one? i ordered the nose and front gondola part from AIMS, but that alone wont do the conversion. do you have pics from the inside of the cockpit of the C2? particulary the part where the three MG 17 and one MG FF or MG 151/20 are visible? as far as i could find out, apart from the steel nose, this was changed from the A-1: 1) the front part of the gondola had the bombsight removed and a different fairing but still no weapons and the rear firing MG 15 in place 2) the MG 15 was removed from the front windshield, but not on the very early versions? 3) were the divebrakes removed? 4) the starboard window behind the nose was changed to a panel with three coolingvents for the MG 17s 5) below the cockpit on the stbd side there was a little hatch for flares and an outlet for the signal pistol 6) the other two little windows on the bottom and the port side, behind the nose all stayed in place (different to the C4 and later versions) 7) there was a single slot for cartridge ejection beside the gondola on the bottom i want to model an early NJG 2 bird out of gilze-rijen in 1941 (R4+KL) i know these are a lot of questions, sorry thanx karl