Dave Roof
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Posts posted by Dave Roof
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In this next update, I'll cover the nose section. When I first saw the test shots and the subsequent build ups, it looked to me as if the nose cone was a little too bulbous. After receiving the kit and being able to get a better look at the parts, I was able to confirm that this is indeed the case.
Oddly enough though, a particular part of the kit nose matches the real nose measurement wise.
On the real aircraft, measured along the centerline of the nose cone, the distance from the nose cone hinge line to the ARBS glass is 47 inches.
On the kit, the distance from the nose cone hinge line to the ARBS glass is just shy of 47 scale inches. It just has the wrong profile, making the whole nose section look odd.
Also, the small antenna on the upper nose cone is in the wrong location, making the nose look even more odd.
On the real aircraft, the distance from the nose cone hinge line to the aft edge of the antenna is 14 inches.
On the kit, the distance from the nose cone hinge line to the aft edge of the antenna is 23 scale inches.
In the photo below, I have added an outline of what the nose should look like (bear in mind that the drawing is not exact, but provided as a visual aid). A photo of the nose cone on the AV-8B at Cherry Point is also included. While it is slightly open, it also shows the correct profile of the nose.
Most of the panel lines are also off (slightly) and there are two details that should be flush with the fuselage. These areas are noted in the attached photo.
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Before going into the fuselage, I'll cover the ordnance pylons. This will get all of the 'hanging' stuff out of the way.
For the most part, the pylons are OK. Unfortunately, the inboard and outboard pylons suffer in a couple of areas. The outboard and middle also have their profiles off a bit and most of the details are incorrect.
The inboard pylons have notches (for lack of a better term) at the aft-bottom ends that are not on the real pylons. However, these can easily be fixed by filling the void with sheet plastic and sanding to shape. The orange lines in the photo show how the pylon should be.
As you can see by the dimensions listed, the outboard pylon is the only one that is really screwed up, being almost a scale foot too short! They got the inboard pylon within a scale half inch and the middle pylon by 1.5 scale inches.......how they managed to get the outboard a scale foot too short is beyond me.
Also, Trumpeter did not include a centerline pylon.
Along with the photo of the kit parts, I have also included photos of the real pylons.
Inboard:
Middle:
Outboard:
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Rushed it?!
They've been working on it for the last 5+ years!
You would think that would be more than enough time.
Jeff
Let me clarify........Think of it as that model you started building for a contest......two years before the contest was being held. You worked on it a little bit at a time, 3 hours here, 30 minutes there, etc. This goes on for months, then before you know it, the contest is a week away and you still have a lot of work to do! So, you burn the midnight oil and rush to finish it in time to enter. It's during this time that a few mistakes are made that compromise all of the awesome work done the previous two years.
This is what I feel happened with the Harrier.....they put a lot of work into it and were making progress. Before they knew it, years had passed and someone finally said, "Hey, we really need to release this kit". In the rush to just get it done and out, they made a lot of mistakes.
This is obviously just a gut feeling and I fully admit that this may be completely off base. It is just the impression I get from looking at the kit as a whole.
I hope that makes sense!
Dave
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Hi Dave Roof,
Please keep your comments on the Trumpeter Harrier (early version) comming. I will be meeting with Trumpeter executives this week at the IPMS Philippines National Contest in Manila and we will be discussing thse discrepancies. The gun pod error will definately be changed. See photo
Also please note that when we reviewed the test shot of this kit earlier this year the weapons were not included. When I recieved my kit two days ago this was the first time I had seen the weapons.
Also be advised that this kit is the first of four Harrier kits Trumpeter will do. Next up will be the night attack version, then the B plus, then the GR-7. Whatever discrepancies noted in this kit will be corrected in the future kits.
Capt Dave Mason
IPMS Philippines
IPMS USA
Mr. Mason,
Please let them know that I am prepared to help in any way I can. I have over 2000 photos of the Harrier, all of the technical publications, and measurements of the real aircraft.
I am also an Aviation Ordnanceman in the Marine Corps and have extensive knowledge of the ordnance being used today by the Marine Corps. As this has been one of Trumpeter's weak spots, I am willing to assist them in this area as well.
I had other commitments last night, so will continue the review this evening. Thank you for assisting in getting this information to Trumpeter.
Dave
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Thanks Dave,
At least all of the "gripes" so far can be fixed from my spares box.
Perhaps we can find "some new resin" company to produce a set of LAU-7's for us! Looking forward to part II.Best of luck with your ankles, I'll keep you in my prayers.
Sincerely,
Crash
As I retire in March, I'll have plenty of time to not only finish some of the masters I've started over the past couple of years, I'll be able to get new ones done. LAU-7 launchers and a DECM pod are on the list. I'll try to find an interested resin company to buy the masters as I'm not too sure I want to get involved in resin production at this time.
I appreciate the prayers, but I'll be fine. They're putting in a screw that will limit movement, so it is more of an inconvenience than anything else. The only personal downfall is that I won't be able to run again.......and I love to run. Oh well, I'll get lots of modeling done!
Very Interesting.As I already mentioned, I intended to do a tweak list for the kit but as you're already doing the job, may I use such info to format it as a tweak list? This would allow us to put it permanently on the site as forums have a volatility that do not foster visibility of the information...
Thierry
Thierry,
You may use whatever you want for your tweak list. I'll get your PM answered this evening regarding the other questions you had.
Thanks Dave .As Crash said , anyone who has built an Academy F-18 should have more than enough bits to overcome the problems highlighted do far I guess.
Trumpter have never had a great rep as regards weaponry , however as usual its disapointing they mad so many basic errors..
keep it coming Dave ...
Academy needs to seriously consider releasing a weapons set in 1/32 scale! They're stuff is the most accurate in kit form and with all of the stuff Trumpeter keeps messing up, Academy would make a killing!
Yeah, it definitely 'looks' like a Harrier, but there are a lot of issues with it. Honestly, it looks like they rushed it just to get it out and cut a lot of corners on details.
Thank you so much Dave so far you have confirmed what I found with the build I did. I will keep watching this one closely.By the way Sorry to hear about your ankles. I am currently fighting the MOD because of my Knees being messed up whilst I was in service, they eventually conceeded that a back injury was thier fault recently but it has taken so long to get them to admit it happened whilst I was in service.
John
Thank you John. For those that don't care about the 'issues', your build should serve as inspiration as it shows what can be done with the kit despite its problems. Nothing like good old fashion modeling skills to turn a lemon into lemonade!
I have my full physical with the VA this morning.........We'll see how that goes!
Dave
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Gentlemen,
A few weeks ago I had MRI's and X-rays on my ankles. I got the results back and dropped them off at the office of our units medical officer. Later that afternoon I stopped by his office to see if he had looked at the results.....he had. This medical officer, a Navy Captain, looked at me and said rather bluntly "SSgt, your ankles are f*&!$d up!"
So a couple of days ago, I took only a quick look at this new kit. Last night, I had the opportunity to really go over the whole kit. As I finished making my mental notes, the words of the Captain echoed in my head as I thought "Trumpeter, your AV-8B is f*&!$d up!"
This is going to be a multi-part review spread out over the course of the week and ending this weekend. This will allow me to cover all areas of the kit, as well as make another trip to Cherry Point on Saturday to take more photos and measurements of the lone Day Attack AV-8B to finalize my review.
I'll start with the external stores (photos of all these sprues/parts will be added when part two is posted):
LAU-7 missile launchers for stations 1 and 7. The kit includes two decent AIM-9 Sidewinders, but no rails to put them on.
LAU-117 missile launchers for the Mavericks. The kit also includes two decent AGM-65 Maverick missiles, but again, no rails to put them on.
MER's (Multiple Ejector Racks) cannot be carried by the Harrier, yet two of them are included. They are not very good either.
TER's (Triple Ejector Racks) can be carried by the Harrier, but the ones included aren't done very well. I would recommend replacing them with the TER's included in the Tamiya 1/32 F-4 Phantom kits.
Sprue H (x2) should simply be discarded as all of the MK-82 bombs are incorrectly shaped, what appear to be M-117 750 lb bombs are not used by the AV-8B, and better AGM-65 Mavericks (along with LAU-117 launchers) can be found in the Academy F/A-18C and D kits.
Sprue WY includes the TER and MER bomb racks. However, I also recommend discarding this sprue and replacing the TER's with those found in the Tamiya F-4's.
Sprue WN (x2) include GBU-12 laser guided bombs (a total of 6 bombs). They are OK, but should be much better for 1/32 scale. While useable, I recommend replacing them with the GBU-12 included in the Academy 1/32 F-16C or the ones available from Avionix/Black Box mastered by yours truly
Sprue WC (x2) include the AIM-9 missiles. Not quite up to par for 1/32 scale and quite useless without rails to load them on.
Sprue Q includes the A/A49E-10 Aircraft 25MM Gun/Ammo Pak. Unfortunately, this is wrong as well. The left pod contains the gun while the right pod contains the ammunition. Trumpeter has you put single barrel cannons in both pods. The Crossover Fairing (kit part Q5) which covers the ammunition feed links between the two pods isn't remotely close to the correct shape.
Sprue N (x2) include the fuel tanks. They are passable. However, like most of the ordnance, they are incorrectly shaped and should not be used.
In Part II tomorrow night, I will cover the forward fuselage section and the cockpit.
Dave
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Just for giggles, does anyone want to let me in on all the Revell kits' problems? I picked on up a long time ago and was thinking about doing it. I'm not much more than passing familiar with the Harrier so I thought it looked reasonable. Reading the above posts, now I'm not too sure. Should I flog it?
Sabre
The Revell kit is an AV-8A and is a completely different airframe. All of the comments about the new Trumpeter AV-8B are irrelevent with regard to the Revell kit.
Dave
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Gentlemen,
I got my Trumpeter 1/32 Harrier yesterday and had the opportunity to go over the parts for a few hours last night...........
Bottom line, the kit is all sorts of F'd Up...But Fixable (FUBF)
I'm in Atlanta and the family and I are getting ready to leave for Myrtle Beach, SC for my units Marine Corps Ball. I'll be back to Camp LeJeune on Monday and will begin my write up and review for the kit then.
I will use photos, as well as measurements of the real aircraft to illustrate my points.
For the 'Rivet Counters' among us, there are numerous issues with the whole kit. For the 'It Looks Like a xxxxx', it can be built out of the box and you will get a pretty decent 1/32 Harrier for your collection.
As this is a Marine aircraft I'm familiar with, I have my rivet counter hat on.
Dave
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Congrats on your retirement Dave. Hope the transition proceeds smoothly.
I looked on the site and the det cord for the Harrier Canopy looks great. No wonder you've got the intel on the Harriers! Sweet!
Cheers Matty
Thanks Matt, it is very much appreciated. Being 30 minutes from Cherry Point has its advantages as well! Speaking of Harriers and kits, UPS tried to deliver my Trump kit this morning, but we were off for Veterans Day. I should have it tomorrow morning and will get started on that review!
Dave
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Gentlemen,
In order to lessen the amount of stuff to be moved, and in part to celebrate my retirement from the Marine Corps in March, I have decided to clear out the remaining stock of Flying Leathernecks Decals.
All links have been updated with the new prices and they will be in effect until the sheets are gone, or 16 January 2010 when my last 'stuff movement' takes place.
As stated on our site, this is NOT a going out of business sale. With medical and VA appointments, as well as job hunting starting to take up more of my time, I simply need to put a few things on hold until April of next year.
Only one new item will be released over the next five months and that will be a 1/32 Canopy Det Cord for the new Trumpeter AV-8B kit.
With the exception of sheet FL32001, there are approximately 100 or so of each 1/48 sheet remaining. If you've been on the fence about getting one (or another one), now might be a good time as they won't be re-released after they've sold out.
Thank you all for your continued support!
Dave
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It looks like a Harrier to me and it's a whole lot better than the Revell kit (The Revell kit looks like a Harrier too)
To be fair to the Revell kit though, it not only represents an AV-8A (which is vastly different than the AV-8B), that kit is also more than 30 years old.......and was 'state of the art' at that time.
I made another trip to MCAS Cherry Point on Saturday and took some more photos of the AV-8B there. I also took more measurements of the nose and will compare them to the kit when it arrives. An article pointing out the discrepencies and how to fix them will be posted here on LSP then.
In the mean time, I've started scratchbuilding masters for an AN/ALQ-164 DECM pod and LAU-7 Missile Launchers for the kit. I've already enlarged my self adhesive vinyl Det Cord for the Harrier to 1/32 and will release it once I'm sure it fits the kit canopy correctly.
Dave
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I feel sorry for John, he has previewed his kit here to us and we just talk about things that dont really have to do with his build and really arent under his control ?
Didn't anyone hear him say a few times now how much he enjoyed building it ? Isnt that what its about ?
Ads
Absolutely no one has had anything negative to say about John's build. Also, just about all of us have commented that we're still going to get the kit, regardless of its problems. I honestly believe that John's build has shown that despite the problems, it can still be built into a fine representation of the real aircraft. It certainly had a part in solidifying my decision to get one.
Another thing to consider.......our comments pointing out the issues, as placed in this thread, have positively contributed to two things:
1. It has caused more people to look at his build (proven by the large jump in "view" numbers for the thread), thus giving it more exposure. This in turn may sway modelers to buy the magazine it will be featured in.
2. It has provided the modeler with a view of what can be done with the kit out of the box, and has provided information they could use to improve what comes in the box. Reading what's wrong and seeing what was done allows each modeler to determine for themselves what they may or may not want to fix.
I say this is the perfect place for such discussion as it will only help those that buy this kit.
Dave
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Hi Jeff
I didn't mean for my comments to seem as if I was criticising Dave Roof far from it I did say I fully reprect, and I do his experience and knowledge of the subject.
John
Just so we're all on the same page, I never felt as if you were criticising me and it is my hope you did not feel as if I was criticising you. I merely pointed out issues in the kit that, in the grand scheme of things, are really not that bad, but may want to be known by other modelers.
As I stated previously, I'll by one (or more) despite the problems as I really want a 1/32 AV-8B Harrier. It is just unfortunate that Trumpeter continues to make simple mistakes that could easily be avoided if they simply did a little more research.
Fortunately, I have access to the real aircraft and will do whatever I can to provide the required references so modelers can make any corrections they feel may be necessary.
It may be time for El Mariachi to break out his Sombrero!
Dave
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unless you have the kit in your hands you couldnt really cast any views on wether its right or not ?
or am i missing something - i dont bloddy know! Ads
Not neccesarily. There are very clear sprue shots available on line and some details Trumpeter got wrong. As I stated previously, when I do get my kit in hand, I'm sure I'll find more than what is obvious in the photos already posted.
Dave
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I'm really sorry to say, but WHAT'S YOUR POINT?????????????????????????????????????????????
What are you trying to prove........i'm really getting sick of this bashing from one point to another just because you've been denied your expertise..........
Get a life buddy, this is a HOBBY...........
J :angry:
Huh? I'm not mad because they didn't accept my help and I'm not trying to prove anything. I plan on getting every version they release (probably a couple of the II Plus versions), regardless of the problems.
Simply put, they screwed up quite a few of the details. If you're happy with the way the kit was tooled (as many others will be), fine, there is nothing wrong with that.
However, some would like to know where the problems are. I am fortunate enough to have access to the real aircraft and can provide the references needed to make such corrections, should anyone choose to do so.
You're right, it is just a hobby. Some take it more seriously than others though. I'm 50/50 myself.........some kits fit in the "it looks like a " - " to me" category, and others (usually USMC subjects) fit in the rivet counter "damn that's wrong and needs to be fixed" category.
This information is for those modelers that put this subject into the latter category.
I hope the rest of your day gets better.
Respectfully,
Dave
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Very nice build John. One (actually two) things that need quick correcting though are the lights on the upper and lower fuselage. They should be (clear) red, not clear.
Unfortunately, the kit itself suffers:
- Nose profile is off (too bulbous)
- Wing pylon profiles are off as well
- There are "notches" on the lower aft end of the inboard pylons that aren't on the real article
- Opening for the GAU-12 is incorrect
- Kit contains instrument panel for the Night Attack and/or II plus Harrier, but no panel for the Day Attack Harrier, which this kit represents
- Forward exhaust nozzles are too square
- No photo looking directly at the model, but the wing 'kink' appears off (not 'kinked' enough)
These are the most obvious.......I am sure there are plenty of others though and I'm looking forward to receiving my kit so I can point them out and hopefully show how to correct them.
Am I happy the kit has finally been released? Yes
Will I get one? Yes
However, I was stationed at Cherry Point, I go there once a month and I have approximately 1500 photos of the Harrier. I have measured two aircraft and have most of the airframes publications in my library.
I offered my references and was told they weren't needed. I asked to take a look at the test shots and was told no............and surprise! Trumpeter screwed the pooch once again.
While I'll probably get them, I'm not too excited to see the Night Attack and II Plus as they more than likely screwed them up just as bad.
Dave
**Corrected spelling error - original text of post left intact
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Gentlemen,
The artwork has been emailed to Cartograf and our first 1/32 sheet will be released at the Nationals!
The sheet number has been changed to FL32001
Price to be determined after we receive the quote for printing.
Thanks for looking and would appreciate any feedback, questions or comments!
Dave
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What is the quality of the Aires detail sets for the Trumpeter A7E and A7D kits?
Mike
Here are a few images of the wheel well sets painted with a wash of Raw Umber. Let me know if you need any more.
Dave
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Gentlemen,
I am not that knowledgeable on the Ki-84, but would like to build one, simply because it looks cool, and it will be a nice change of pace from my modern stuff.
My question is regarding the two different boxings by Hasegawa. Both appear to be Type 4 Ki-84's, but one is a 'Prototype'. Can this be built as a non-prototype aircraft (does it have the needed parts in the box)? I ask because there is almost a $10.00 difference in price, with the 'prototype' being the least expensive of the two.
Thanks,
Dave
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Gentlemen,
Both RC Resins and Cutting Edge have nose corrections for the Trumpeter F-105D. Does anyone know if one is better than the other (quality of casting, application, etc)?
Also, for those that have built, or are building the kit, what aftermarket items would you recommend as "must have" to fix whatever problems there are with it? I've read of a few errors in shape, etc., but I'm not all that knowledgeable on the F-105.
Thanks,
Dave
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Gentlemen,
Put all of that crap away. No more using thinned putty, or liquid cement, or any other messy medium to recreate the Thermal Protective coating on bombs.
Buy yourself a can of this:
Spray it on your bombs like any other spray paint, let it dry, and you have this:
You can then repaint it in Gray or Green to replicate the bombs currently in use by the Navy and Marine Corps. This paint also comes in bottles, but I haven't tried airbrushing it yet. It also works great for recreating non-skid for walkways.
Just in case anyone asks, the bomb is a master I recently finished for a 1/32 MK84 2000lb bomb. I still need to work on the tail sections for a standard dumb bomb, JDAM, and GBU.
Dave
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Gentlemen,
I have both of the Cutting Edge conversions (F-4G/F-4E) needed to make a 'G', that were designed for the Tamiya F-4C/D. I also have a Tamiya F-4E, which should accept the conversion pieces with no problems.
Are there any other conversions out there to make a 1/32 F-4G, or should I just stick with the CE set?
Thanks,
Dave
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There is a fix for the Trumpeter A-7E intake coming soon. It is going to be a relatively simple and hopefully inexpensive fix at that. If all goes as planned with the masters, no cutting of the kit will be required.
I'll post more information as I get it.
Dave
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Anthony,
Did you ever get the Tamiya F-16 radar parts you were looking for? If not, drop me an email at: RoofDL@aol.com I've got them for you (just let me know exactly what you need).
The Skyhawk is looking awesome. I'm looking forward to seeing this one progress.
Dave
Trumpeter 1/32 AV-8B Harrier review - The beginning
in LSP Discussion
Posted
The outboard pylon is too short, too tall and has the wrong profile overall. In fact, after taking a closer look at all three pylons, they all have the wrong profile. There are three possible solutions:
1. Hopefully, with the assistance of Mr. Mason, I'm going to attempt to persuade Trumpeter to retool them (unlikely due to cost, but you never know).
2. I'm going to master new parts for a resin update set (either released through Orion after I retire, or sold to another company that may be interested).
3. The modeler can leave them as is, as they don't take that much away from the overall appearance of the finished model. The nose is the only major item that throws the look off.
Dave