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Can't figure it out: Airbrush and Lacquer primer problem


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#16 Gazzas

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 01:15 AM

It's back Up

 

Thanks!  I really appreciate a lot of your videos.

 

Gaz


​We don't have social skills.  We build models.


#17 ringleheim

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 07:09 PM

Gazzas, this seems weird.

The first thing I would do is take the airbrush apart, especially the nozzle/tip area, and clean the heck out of everything with lacquer thinner.  Make sure the airbrush is in like new condition.

 

Make sure you are thinning a lacquer based product with lacquer thinner.  I recommend using only Mr. Leveling Thinner from Gunze Sangyo.  The stuff is expensive, but it has retarder built into it and makes lacquers and Tamiya acrylics spray perfectly.

 

You really should not ever be getting orange peel.  To me it means you are spraying too aggressively and putting too much wet paint on the subject too quickly.  And then it is drying before it can level itself out.

 

Go with a thinner paint mixture and a more gentle air pressure.  20 PSI is good as a general rule; that should be plenty as long as you have thinned appropriately for that pressure.

 

Always apply multiple light coats letting the paint set up a bit between passes, and frequently blow air onto fresh paint with the airbrush to help it dry.

 

Orange peel is sort of the byproduct of blasting away with a ton of paint at high pressure at a close distance.  Try to paint in the opposite sort of manner.

 

Hope some of this helps!



#18 Hardcore

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 11:02 PM

Dry tips is a problem of the past for me. I am not sure how but I suspects using a cheap AB with bigger nozzle is relevant. Then maybe I learned to thin the paint.

#19 Peterpools

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 12:13 AM

HI Gaz

Yikes, orange peel with lacquer paints, something isn't right. You know my work and I'm pretty much fully converted to lacquer paints now: MRP and Mr Color; used for both the base primer and top coats. Never a speck of orange peel and I'm pretty sure it isn't the airbrush. Just make sure the air brush is really clean, with no clogs and no residue from other types of paint in the air brush.

I never thin MRP paints but do use a few drops of Gunze Mild Retarder to keep the lacquer wet and flow a bit better.

Mr Color: thinned 3 parts Mr Color Self Leveling Thinner to one part of Mr Color and a few drops of Retarder.

The paint is now good to go and mix in a 1 oz plastic cup and never in the air brush cup.

I shoot around 12-15 psi, an 1-2 inches or so from the model surface.

keep the air brush square to the model surface

Lots of thin, light coats.

It it's hot and humid and no AC , add more retarder.

I shoot this way no matter what the air brush:

My weapons of choice:

HS Infinity CR Plus .2 tip

Iwata Eclipse HP-CS .35 tip

Iwata Revolution CR .5 tip

Iwata HP-M1

Just doesn't matter the air brush. Just keep the paint thinned, add retarder, lots of thin light coats and keep the air brush moving.

Orange peel is normally the paint being too thick and blasted on (I never shoot at 25 psi; 18 psi is about my limit) .

Peter


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#20 Gazzas

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 02:53 AM

Guys,
Thanks for all of the great, helpful responses. I managed to get a decent result using Mr. Self levelling thinner, yesterday. I thinned the primer roughly 50/50 and didn't have any trouble getting thin, smooth coats.

Gaz
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#21 Peterpools

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 02:55 AM

gaz

Thinning is the key. Use 3 or 4 drops of Gunze Mild retarder and you will be amazed at how smooth the surface will be

Peter


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#22 Gazzas

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 08:53 AM

Peter,

   Thanks for the recommendation.  I ordered a bottle, and will be able to try it soon. 

 

Gaz


​We don't have social skills.  We build models.


#23 CANicoll

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 05:20 PM

gaz

Thinning is the key. Use 3 or 4 drops of Gunze Mild retarder and you will be amazed at how smooth the surface will be

Peter

 

Peter, will the Gunze retarder work with Vallejo acrylics or just the lacquers?

THX  Chris


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#24 kman458

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 05:49 AM

I have a question since we are talking about paint. I have some model master metallized aluminum lacquer I would like to use on an airplane model. It's been so long I can not remember what I used to clean the airbrush. What do i need to use?

Edited by kman458, 03 March 2018 - 05:50 AM.

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#25 Gazzas

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 03:43 AM

Any hardware store lacquer thinner should do.

 

Gaz


​We don't have social skills.  We build models.


#26 kman458

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 03:11 AM

Any hardware store lacquer thinner should do.
 
Gaz

Ok cool. Thanks for the help.

Kenny

#27 tcrayne

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 01:50 AM

I only get the problem you have when I don't clean what I'm painting to the fullest. There is always extractor residue left over on plastic parts that sometimes can be hard to remove. Most paints will react to the residue    



#28 Zero77

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 07:11 AM

  Actually worse than orange peel.  It's more like spraying it with fine granules.

 

It sounds like you simply dont thin you paint / primer enough.

 

What is the consistancy of your mix?


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#29 CANicoll

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 05:35 PM

It sounds like you simply dont thin you paint / primer enough.

 

What is the consistancy of your mix?

 

And maybe at too-high of pressure?  I know some folks here shoot at 12-14 psi I tend to shoot 16-18 myself.  Thinning the paint is definitely important.

Good luck and remember - Practice, Practice, Practice!!!   B)



#30 GuildAero

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 07:03 PM

If you have a decent compressor, use a small spray gun. Especially for primer. All you want is a nice even finish with a primer and for the most part, any other paint.  If you must use an airbrush, dump the ones with needles and use a single action. I have 2 Paasche Model Hs. Now considered vintage apparently. Probably by the airbrush snobs. I ignore all that tosh and keep one for colour, one for clear.  I clean them with cellulose glossing thinners (unless I use Valejo clear, then it's water) or (what I think you overseas chaps call lacquer thinners)  I buy the one that costs these days about 12 quid a gallon, but it last me 2 years at least.  I use Sikkens self-etch primer on everything from aluminium and brass (for which it was originally developed) to resin, plastic and yes, even wood.  It ain't nice stuff I should imagine, so I spray it outdoors.   I spray everything outdoors if at all possible.  I use cellulose paints if at all possible and Zero paints, which are the best, bar none are cellulose (only different, he says) and so do them outside. Because they are airbrush ready I use the colour Paasche Model H. It takes seconds to set up for a nice spray and then I go over all with Akrifan clear in the small spray gun for which it is formulated. No thinners required.  Zero paint needs a gloss clear for most finishes or, I assume a matt clear for war stuff. I don't know, I don't do war.  If you get orange peel, the paint is almost certainly too thick, as your pressure is plenty high enough. My self -etch is dry in about 5 minutes, Akrifan gloss clear about 10.

 

I'd invest in a small spray gun, also called a spotting gun or a dent gun.  The needle is thick and bullet proof, they are easy to clean without damage and the whole thing is less than the cost of an airbrush....much less. Last I looked, a very nice one, all fancy blue anodized was a measly 18 quid.

 

In case you wonder, I have been doing this since I was a teenager. This year I will have been a pensioner for a year.  I've painted full sized classic cars (they weren't then classics!) down to 2mm scale model railways.  Same rules apply. Like most modelmaking it really is NOT difficult if you're just a bit careful.  Oh and the best way to spray is to pretend you're a robot. Nice mechanical strokes back and forth starting off the model, finishing off the other end.

Then bang it in somewhere dry and warm  and dust free.

I'm making either a master or a finished slot car at least one a week and always have, so that's how often I spray.

 

Cheers,

Martin


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