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DS Air to air refuelling: KA-6D&A-7E (A-7 finished on to KA-6D)


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#151 Guyman1

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 04:01 PM

Very nice modelling going on here great weathering the side by side shots are great
Really looking forward to the next faze of this build.

Guy
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#152 red Dog

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 01:54 PM

Sorry for the lack of answer gents, i have been enjoying another (winter) hobby last week :)

I confess to having thought you were going overboard with the panel weathering but in natural light it looks spot-on. Bravo!

thanks Kiwizac. to be fair there are quite a few pictures i didn't dare posting because of that very reason, the winter and low light condition in my hobby room (and my lack of indoor photography skill) didn't help with the subtility of the weathering.
One thing also to consider is that the final matt coat will serioulsy blend prior painting, so to reach a desired effect at the end, you often need to go a bit heavy otherwise the effect might be too subtle once completely finished.

I like it a lot, great result - I hope to see the finished scene in Putte later this year!

Thanks, not sure i can finish the intruder for the event, we'll see
 

I think that the extra work on the decals was the right call, and the paint and weathering is spot on.

Thanks, i'm very glad i changed the decals indeed.

thank you all for your comments. I'll take a small break just to order some PE detail for the intruder cockpit and I'll get the intruder out of its box soon
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#153 red Dog

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 01:58 PM

As for the zacto's bits, i agree they are not perfect but i think they are the best possible considering the issues to be dealt with.
In any way i'm glad i used them and IMHO they helped quite a lot to give a better looking Corsair.
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#154 red Dog

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 11:03 AM

Getting ready for the follow up: the KA-6D

A6A7_002_A6_presentation.png

As with the corsair, many parts will be discarded. it's a real shame because this model scream for a landing, deck or launch configuration.
well, i'll just have to build another one someday (hoping for a prowler)

Anyway i chosed not to source the resin cockpit but just the seats. The cockpit will be closed and populated with two pilots so not much will be left visible anyway.
On the other hand i sourced the eduard cockpit PE.
the KA-6D conversion is provided by SB and consists of an observer panel, the reel system, hose guide and the rear end for the ventral bag. I will probably install a buddy refuelling pod in place of the ventral bag. Indeed the KA-6D often had the pod in case of issues with the genuine reel system.

Seamless intakes are a welcome addition since i don't have the luxury to install intake covers on this one. decals are from AOA and consist of both the stencils and the desert storm sheet. Unfortunately none of the options for a refueller so i will have to add my own decals to the lot and discard a lot of the AOA decals.

The choice of squadron ended on VA-35. Probably 524 but that's not set in stone yet
p849370234-3.jpg


First order of business was to compare the wing bags with hasegawa's skyhawks
i heard a lot of complaints about misshapen fuel tanks and since i have some hasegawa for a brazilian AF-1 project i'd figure i'd make my own mind:

A6A7_137_A6_fueltanks.png

Length is the same, front section is identical
the problem starts around mid section and the trumpeter ones are much thinner than the hasegawa towards the rear.
So yes there's definitely a difference
That said it's far from critical. most of the problems are hidden by the wings, at least when viewed from above. So i think i can live with this, especially since i need 4 of them and i do not have 4 hasegawa spares.
To me the issue is not worth correcting.
the trumpeter ones lack détails at the rear end and that needs to be addressed though.


A6A7_136_A6_seat.png
resin seats were removed from their casting blocks (yes i broke one because there's no room to get your saw blade in there)
the belts were removed as i will seat both pilots. doing so will require the seat cushions to be modified for the pilots to blend nicely in. That's the pencilled area.


A6A7_139_A6_pilots.png
This time it looks like the huge pilots from Master's are fitting the cockpit nicely. Looks like i'll finally be able to use them after all.
I was planning to induce the boredom of such missions for the BN by having the right guy reading a book.
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#155 red Dog

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 11:41 AM

While I'm scratching my head trying to match the colour of the eduard precolored PR (I just hate these) I mostly tested a lot of things through dryfit and preparing the heavy work of putting the intruder on a display rod.

The center pedestal of the BN was removed as the KA-6D don't have them
A6A7_145_A6_cockpitbase.png
All details were sanded flat in preparation of the PE

With experience I developped a serie of checks when doing inflight models, particularily around the pilots and the canopies ensuring that it closes nicely
A6A7_146_A6_pilotcheck.png
All seems pretty good, with room to spare. That's a great news, even using these huge pilots
That checks also tells me where I have to detail the pit. in this case, detailling the turtle deck is pretty pointless. Glad I didn't go for the resin cockpit

The intakes are easy to install. Just a careful cut with a saw along the ladder wells and they fit very easily. The door of the ladder even fits very well closed
A6A7_142_A6_intake.png

A6A7_143_A6_intake.png

A6A7_144_A6_intake.png

Next, putting that beast on a display rod, and that's quite a challenge !

Edited by red Dog, 31 March 2018 - 11:42 AM.

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#156 red Dog

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:12 AM

Some of intruder builds online report that the inner wing fences need to be moved inboard.
i didn't know if this was valid for all A6A and E alike and confusion settled in when I saw some drawing for A-6A & KA-6D with the wing fences more inboard than they are on the kit.
3_1.jpg
That's clearly a refueller and the wingfences are inboard the pylons

So I researched the issue a bit more and came to the conclsuion that the drawing I saw first were wrong.

A-6A & KA-6D have the wing fence outboard of the pylon, while A-6E have the wing fence just inboard of the pylon
Here's the picture that settle the issue for me:

A6A7_141_A6_wingfence.png

and here's trumpeter A-6A wing:

A6A7_140_A6_wingfence.png

I guess the issue is only on the A-6E then.
Good news I don't have to move the wingfence, it should just be trimmed a bit.

Another bit that needs a bit of research is the wingtip light on the KA-6D wing.
The A-6A need to have another wingtip light just forward of the speedbrake which trumpy kit doesn't have (and the forward one must be resized)
Since the KA-6D were retrofitted with the low light formation light, they have the same wingtip light as the A-6E
So no more work required as far as the wingtip lights are concerned

Edited by red Dog, 01 April 2018 - 07:39 AM.

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#157 Gazzas

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 09:00 PM

Man!

   I like how this is coming together.  The crew in the cockpit look awesome.  I used to watch these around El Toro.  They look awesome banking around the airfield with their front slats deployed, and the red paint looked blood-red due to distance.

 

Gaz


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#158 allthumbs

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 05:45 AM

Hi RD,

By the late 1970s, nearly all models of the Intruder/Prowler, including the tanker fleet, had their inner wing leading edges altered to accept the relocation of DECM antennas. This took the form of a raised cuff that wrapped underneath the wing in the area of the MLG wheel covers. The placement of these antenna housings altered the aerodynamics to a degree, resulting in the inner wing fence displacement (inboard several inches).

Incidentally, only the EA-6A retained the original “A” wing leading edge (with the long, uninterrupted stall strip) into the 1980s and 1990s.

So, for a Desert Storm era KA-6D, the wing pieces supplied in the Trumpeter A-6E boxing are more accurate (DECM antenna bulges), although the kit designers failed to relocate the inner wing fences.

Sorry to complicate things! But, nevertheless, I hope you find the information helpful (if not satisfying).

Regards,

Rich

Edited by allthumbs, 02 April 2018 - 05:50 AM.

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#159 scvrobeson

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 06:13 AM

Who made the seamless intakes? I've got a Trumpeter Intruder in the stash, but was really hoping for some easy intakes like that before starting on it

 

 

 

 

 

Matt 


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#160 red Dog

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 02:46 PM

I like how this is coming together.  The crew in the cockpit look awesome.  I used to watch these around El Toro.  They look awesome banking around the airfield with their front slats deployed, and the red paint looked blood-red due to distance.

Thanks Gaz, that's the biggest drawback for this build, not being able to drop the slats & flaps and see that red !!
 

Hi RD, By the late 1970s, nearly all models of the Intruder/Prowler, including the tanker fleet, had their inner wing leading edges altered to accept the relocation of DECM antennas. This took the form of a raised cuff that wrapped underneath the wing in the area of the MLG wheel covers. The placement of these antenna housings altered the aerodynamics to a degree, resulting in the inner wing fence displacement (inboard several inches).

Okay that makes sense, although it seems i was wrong then and i have to move the wing fence after all, thanks Rich for your help on that one!
I didn't realise immediately that the stall strip was either short or long.
I can clearly see now the difference in the short stall strip as in the picture below and earlier full length stall strip
What i also failed to realise is how old the picture I used for the outboard wing fence of #524 is. telltale i guess would have been the presence of the alq-100.

1024px-KA-6D_Intruder_VA-35_in_flight_19
Va-35 KA-6D from the Saratoga in 90-91 has the short stall strip, and the DECM antenna retrofit, the small wingtip light, the formation lights & no alq-100 antenna on the outboard pylon.
the issue with that picture is that i can't see for sure about the wing fence, it seems inboard but the angle of the picture makes it difficult.
 

Incidentally, only the EA-6A retained the original “A” wing leading edge (with the long, uninterrupted stall strip) into the 1980s and 1990s.)
So, for a Desert Storm era KA-6D, the wing pieces supplied in the Trumpeter A-6E boxing are more accurate (DECM antenna bulges), although the kit designers failed to relocate the inner wing fences.

got it , thanks a lot for your help. where's my cutter and my sanding stick?
Of course the trumpeter A-6A kit wings do not have the DECM bulge and have the full length stall strip. I'll see if that's something I can fix..

 
 

Who made the seamless intakes? I've got a Trumpeter Intruder in the stash, but was really hoping for some easy intakes like that before starting on it

The ones I used are from Rhino models, but since then GT resin i think have their own seamless intakes as well:
http://forum.largesc...showtopic=70325

Edited by red Dog, 05 April 2018 - 06:20 AM.

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#161 red Dog

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 08:01 AM

I got the old 1/48 revell intruder out of the stash to have a better idea about the decm antenna.
It's a spot hard to see on real picture because mostly under the wing

A6A7_150_A6_revell_DECM.png

I could use some A-6E trumpeter picture of the underwing focused on the DECM antenna.
I'd be grateful if an owner of the model could take some picture of the underwing to help me

my plan is to add plasticard in lieu of the DECM and fill the leading edge with putty and round it.
But to be able to do that i'd need to get the shape right first :)
Many thanks

A picture like this would be awesome (disregard the gear door)
A6A7_148_A6_DECM.png
by the way, notice the error in the Wheel well contour?

Here's the plasticard draft
A6A7_149_A6_DECM.png

Many thanks
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#162 red Dog

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 08:16 AM

and of course right after posting i found one from Emilio A-6E builr report. I searched before but a lot of WIP had images removed followed the photobucket drama

Emilio, i hope you don't mind me using your picture :)
PkKKqa5.jpg
that's perfect
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#163 allthumbs

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 03:57 PM

Great work!

Here are some pictures of the Trumpeter A-6E wing pieces, with the modified leading edge section. Note that Trumpeter did not relocate the inner wing fence. It remains in the old, pre-mod position. The black line shows where it ought to be located.

https://i.imgur.com/bw792gW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MoLuosM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Mtbglh6.jpg

Edited by allthumbs, 08 April 2018 - 03:58 PM.

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#164 allthumbs

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 05:11 PM

Some of my KA-6D photos. For the tanker fleet, a blue flashing beacon light was installed on the NLG door.

https://imgur.com/gallery/9cidX
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#165 red Dog

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 05:19 PM

Thanks Rich, great reference. I appreciate it
Timing is perfect too as I was busy to relocate that wing fence today & came to the same location
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