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Applied rivets like decals.


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#1 ssculptor

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 02:16 PM

While on a model railroad forum I came across various scale rivets on sheets like decals in 1/35th, 1/48th, 1/87, etc.

http://www.archertra...aceDetails.html

These would be good for tanks but maybe the smaller scales (HO is 1/87) would be OK for 1/32 or 1/24?
Very interesting.
Stephen
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#2 harvey

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 05:01 PM

These have been discused here earlier. Thanks for the link , though.....Harv :speak_cool:
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#3 geedubelyer

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 08:51 PM

Hello Stephen,

I've just begun using these Archer rivets on the gear well of my current project. Thus far things have gone well.
I have applied the decal film directly to bare plastic sheet so adhesion was n't good but Micro Set cured that.
I also used Sol to dissolve the carrier film and that worked well too.
I seem to recall Texas using these on the rear fuselage of his Trumpeter A-10 to good effect.
See here

HTH

Cheers.

Edited by geedubelyer, 02 December 2010 - 08:57 PM.

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#4 Bob MDC

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 09:24 PM

Hi,
Saw some samples at the UK Nationals, very impresive a sheet per wing surface just apply the decal to the whole wing surface and that,s it wing riveted !!
I think it's a Cech company.

Bob

#5 Kagemusha

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 09:40 PM

It's HGW http://www.hgw.webga...190d-9-hasegawa they also sell via ebay.
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#6 Guest_Ta152H1_*

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:36 PM

I'm currently using the HGW rivets on my in-progress Dora....they're the best invention after sliced bread!I'll post a few pictures tomorrow!They're available in 1/32 and quarter scale for several Hasegawa,Tamiya and Eduard Doras, Antons and 109s.
Cheers
Lou

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 04:06 PM

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#8 Wurzacher

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 06:24 PM

Now i am a little bit puzzled: these rivets are standing proud of the surface, donīt they? As far as i know (and thatīs not too much...) most, if not all, German aircraft had flush countersunk rivets...

The pictures shown look great, these are wonderful rivets, but they remember me a C-47 standing in a museum near Munich. This aircraft for example has prominent raised rivets. I took a while searching for pictures of Focke-Wulf aircraft pictures on the net. Here are two examples showing the rivets on a Fw 190:

First one,
second one.

Somewhere in Guttormīs Ju 88 thread he mentioned the high quality of German riveteers in WWII. They made them so good some just disappeared under the paint applied!

So, on one side the rivets shown on your model look interesting, on the other side they donīt look correct to the eye.

I do not want to debase you or your model, Lou. Please donīt get me wrong, ok?

Thomas

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#9 Anthony in NZ

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 06:36 PM

Great photos, I have just purchased some of these off Jan through ebay. I have the Archer ones also, but I like the concept of not having the decal film still on them as per the HGW ones.

I just brought the straight rows for my BK-117.....any tips or tricks to using them?

Thanks for the great photo's

Cheers
Anthony

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 08:10 PM

Now i am a little bit puzzled: these rivets are standing proud of the surface, don´t they? As far as i know (and that´s not too much...) most, if not all, German aircraft had flush countersunk rivets...

The pictures shown look great, these are wonderful rivets, but they remember me a C-47 standing in a museum near Munich. This aircraft for example has prominent raised rivets. I took a while searching for pictures of Focke-Wulf aircraft pictures on the net. Here are two examples showing the rivets on a Fw 190:

First one,
second one.

Somewhere in Guttorm´s Ju 88 thread he mentioned the high quality of German riveteers in WWII. They made them so good some just disappeared under the paint applied!

So, on one side the rivets shown on your model look interesting, on the other side they don´t look correct to the eye.

I do not want to debase you or your model, Lou. Please don´t get me wrong, ok?

Thomas


Hi Thomas,
don't worry mate...I know what you mean and I respect your opinion;as a matter of fact at first the effect did puzzle me a bit as well,especially when we consider that the way German workers applied rivets was so neat that they (the rivets)did almost disappear under the coats of paint only to re-appear when the paint shrunk and dirt accumulated in the recesses,as can be seen on many pictures of FWs and 109s.
Yes,they're raised but seen in the flesh the effect is less evident,I've taken the pictures in a hurry with my cell phone in very bad light!You're right,they definitely look more like the rivets seen on Dakotas and Fortresses but the pictures I've attached only depict the first part of the job.
I wrote more about the way they oughta be applied and blended but as I hit the "Add Reply" button the PC freezed up and the post vanished.I wrote that in this era of recessed panels and rivets Mr. Bobek has re-invented the raised rivet but the final result is much more convincing that it may seem by looking at the pictures.A few light passes with varying grades of Micromesh are what it takes to "tone" them down as much as you want,after all I like my models to have rivets that can be barely seen,almost "guessed" under the paint,and I even fill in panel lines.
As can be seen by the attached pictures I've misted a light coat of Alclad Aluminum to blend the rivets in,and once the model will be painted and weathered they'll look great.Further...a few very LIGHT passes with 12000 grit Micromesh will remove the outer coat of paint and make the rivets look like the ridges around embossed rivets.Of course,the only way to reproduce authentic-looking rivets is the tedious use of the grainers but this is a very good option,and IMHO deefinitely better than what can be obtained by using the various "riveters",which I nevertheless keep on using on smaller scales.

@Anthony...the 1/48 straight rows are great to duplicate the rivets found inside cockpits,engine and UC bays.
That's how I apply them;
First I airbrush a coat of Alclad or Mr.Surfacer Gray Primer and when it's cured I polish the surface that must be "riveted" with Micromesh and a cotton polishing wheel chucked into my Dremel at very low RPM.Then I cut the decal one panel at a time and dip it into lukewarm water like I would with any other decal.When the riveted "panel" separates from the carrier I take it with a pair of tweezers and put it on a piece of tissue,I liberally coat the area to be decalled with Microset or Gunze's equivalent and then put the decal on the model moving it around until it's perfectly centered,I press it down with a piece of tissue or soft cloth and put the wing/fuselage/cowling/you-name-it aside and forget about it for a couple of hours (I want to be on the safe side!).At this point the carrier film can be easily peeled off and the riveted area can be washed with warm water and mild detergent to get rid of any glue residue.Once the rivets are in situ I like to further secure them with a coat of Alclad Aluminum or Gunze Mr.Metal or whatever its name,they can be left as they are or toned down either by laying a few coats of paint or sanding them down with very fine Micromesh.
If you need to know more about them please ask!
Cheers
Lou

Edited by Ta152H1, 03 December 2010 - 10:38 PM.


#11 Anthony in NZ

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 10:21 PM

Aaaah you are a champion Lou, that explains it perfectly.

My 32nd BK is already primed with Mr Surfacer 1200 and buffed to a shiny finish. So I am going to give it a go later today.

I brought some 48th ones as well as it will suit some areas of a 32nd aircraft as well.

Much appreciated

Cheers
Anthony

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 10:40 PM

Aaaah you are a champion Lou, that explains it perfectly.

My 32nd BK is already primed with Mr Surfacer 1200 and buffed to a shiny finish. So I am going to give it a go later today.

I brought some 48th ones as well as it will suit some areas of a 32nd aircraft as well.

Much appreciated

Cheers
Anthony

Glad to be of help Anthony ;) !
Cheers
Lou

#13 ssculptor

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 11:01 PM

Now i am a little bit puzzled: these rivets are standing proud of the surface, donīt they? As far as i know (and thatīs not too much...) most, if not all, German aircraft had flush countersunk rivets...

The pictures shown look great, these are wonderful rivets, but they remember me a C-47 standing in a museum near Munich. This aircraft for example has prominent raised rivets. I took a while searching for pictures of Focke-Wulf aircraft pictures on the net. Here are two examples showing the rivets on a Fw 190:

First one,
second one.

Somewhere in Guttormīs Ju 88 thread he mentioned the high quality of German riveteers in WWII. They made them so good some just disappeared under the paint applied!

So, on one side the rivets shown on your model look interesting, on the other side they donīt look correct to the eye.

I do not want to debase you or your model, Lou. Please donīt get me wrong, ok?

Thomas

Thomas,
If you look at the on-line catalog of these rivets you will see that they ave several lines.
The rivets that stand proud are for model railroaders to apply to their rolling stock, steam engines and industgrial items. There the rivets stand high. These can also be used on early military tanks and armored cars of the 1916 to early WW2 era where the rivets stood out.
For aircraft they offer flush molded rivets as well as Deuz fasteners.
They seem to have something for everyone.
It is a good line.
Stephen
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#14 alaninaustria

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 11:07 PM

Lou, I admire your work and patience... but raised rivets of any kind on a D-9 are not to be found on the real aircraft. There are two types of rivetting to be found: either raised (AKA proud rivets) and flush rivets. The German aircraft industry used both, and you can find proud rivets on the Ju-87. In some aerodynamic blind spots on high performance aircraft you will find proud rivetting patterns because the proud rivets act as a form of vortex generation (boundary layer airflow seperation delay and also to enhance critical flight control effectiveness). The D-9 has very little aerodynamic blind spots and was a high performance aircraft that relied on a low drag airframe for high performance - thus no proud rivetting. The rivet heads we see in photos are either due to the paint chipping off due to torsional stressess in the aircraft skin during flight, differential expansion or corrosion etc. The rivets you are using look cool, but I do not agree that they look correct - solely my opinion. But, please do keep showing us the progress on this fine build... if I get to see the final result, I might just change my religion.... :coolio:
Cheers,
Alan

#15 Radub

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 11:15 PM

That is the kind of stuff I used to remove from older kits. :D Why would anyone want to add them is beyond me.
I concur with the others... I only managed to come close to two preserved FW190 and neither featured such raised rivets.
Radu

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