Pre Shade Help

[Duncan Doenitz]

Hi all,

 

Having got back into this hobby after many decades, I am on the learning curve. I asked about pre shading with a marker pen and let's just say I was nearly run out of town with a pitchfork. Fair enough, I'm a rookie. 

 

Another thought occurred to me. Paint is just pigment and black paint will probably have a lot of carbon. Would it be possible to preshade using a very soft black pencil or even a charcoal stick ? There would be no nasty chemicals to leach through the paint (as per black markers). Would the first few coats seal in the carbon ?

 

I'm still learning how to airbrush and playing with needle sizes, pressures, mixing ratios however a faster and more precise method would be very welcome.

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Duncan Doenitz

[Woody V]

I'm afraid you're just going to have to bite the bullet and put some time in getting comfortable with your airbrush. There's no getting around it, an airbrush is essential. There's probably as many opinions on the subject as there are model builders but here's mine. Any airbrush with a .2mm tip. 15 psi. Lacquer based paints are far superior to acrylics, so don't delay the inevitable, get some. Then practice, practice and more practice.

 

Pre-shading isn't an exact science. It's okay if yours isn't perfect because it's all going to be painted over anyway and the "mistakes" you make may be the only thing you see, but others won't. Start on the bottom of your model, it's least likely to be seen and you can build confidence before moving on to the top, most visible part of your model.

I wouldn't go with any of the ideas you're considering. The wheel has already been invented so just use it.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Woody V

[quang]

FWIW my advice to newbies: 

First learn to apply a fine, no-spittle, regular coat of paint using a not-too-fine nozzle (0,2-0,3mm).
At the same time, you’ll learn how to dilute the paint to the proper consistency, set the ideal air pressure and also control your trigger hand movements (speed and distance from the painted surface).

Once you get these basic techniques under the belt, pre-shading, marbling and other ‘special effects’ will come up naturally.

HTH

[Citadelgrad]

I am a few years ahead of you in the return to the hobby, far from an expert in any aspect.

 

Totally agree with Woody.  Get some newspaper out and go to town. Learn how to get a nice fine line, and then use preshading itself as practice. Especially if you are using lacquer based paints, any massive screw ups can just be painted over.  You'll quickly pick up the skills needed to draw the lines and features.    

[Duncan Doenitz]

Thanks folks, I appreciate the answers i.e. practice, small needle, 70:30 thinner:paint mix and 15 psi.

 

Interesting comment re lacquer based paint. I use either Tamiya or Mr Colour aqueous. What's the advantage of lacquer ? So far, I have been delighted with the results but better is always better. It it less prone to tip drying ?

 

all the best 

 

DD

[Woody V]

16 hours ago, Duncan Doenitz said:

It it less prone to tip drying ?

YES.

The problem with acrylics is that once they dry they can't be "re-wet", meaning more liquid paint or thinner won't turn the dry paint into liquid paint. Thus you get build up on the tip.

Lacquer, on the other hand can be re-wet so wet paint or thinner turns dry lacquer into liquid paint again. Thus no build up.

 

This whole re-wetting quality of lacquer results in many, many benefits which I'm sure further comment will explain.

[Duncan Doenitz]

Thank you, every day is a day in the classroom. 

 

I dropped into a local crafty hobby store (hint) and picked up a 8B pencil and some charcoal drawing sticks (cheap as chips). I pre-shaded some spare kit parts and feathered them with a brush. The effect looks very promising and one benefit is a damp tissue soon removes anything that wasn't quite right. I'll get around to doing a couple of top coats and will reply back with photos, It will be an interesting experiment. I expect that neither the pencil nor the charcoal has any chemicals that will leach through over time. I presume the top coats will seal in the graphite / carbon.

 

cheers

 

DD

[quang]

4 hours ago, Woody V said:

This whole re-wetting quality of lacquer results in many, many benefits which I'm sure further comment will explain.

It’s the reason why vintage Fender guitars -originally with cellulose lacquer finish - are much easier to restore than the more modern guitars with polyurethane (or worse, polyester) varnish.

[Duncan Doenitz]

The trend seems to be to sand everything back to a relic look which is horrible.

 

Anyhow..... thread drift. 

[Out2gtcha]

5 hours ago, Woody V said:

Lacquer, on the other hand can be re-wet so wet paint or thinner turns dry lacquer into liquid paint again. Thus no build up.

 

 

This is one quality that makes MRP paints quite nice to work with. Even when they are too thin to brush paint out of the bottle, all it takes is to pour some MRP paint into a small cup and place in front of a heater or in an airing cupboard, and bingo, perfect matching brushable paint.

Adding onto this, you can also take that same small cup of MRP paint, even after the small bit of paint has dried up, and just add a bit of Mr. Color thinner or Mr. Color leveling thinner to it, and bang, you have a cup or regenerated usable (brushable) paint. 

[mozart]

Whilst it’s not a good idea to pre-shade with a soft pencil, you can post-shade with one and achieve some very good effects.

[tucohoward]

Actually the two paints you are using, Tamiya and Mr. Hobby, are probably the best of the non-lacquer paints out there. I find them just as easy to use as MRP and Mr. Color. Ok nothing is as easy as MRP since you don't need to thin it but they all spray great. I thin Tamiya and Mr. Hobby with IPA or Mr. Color Leveling Thinner and have never had any tip drying. Pre-shading is definitely good airbrush practice as others have said. Anything you don't like can just be painted over.

 

Jay

[Woody V]

On 3/28/2023 at 10:15 AM, Duncan Doenitz said:

I dropped into a local crafty hobby store (hint) and picked up a 8B pencil and some charcoal drawing sticks (cheap as chips). I pre-shaded some spare kit parts and feathered them with a brush. The effect looks very promising and one benefit is a damp tissue soon removes anything that wasn't quite right. I'll get around to doing a couple of top coats and will reply back with photos, It will be an interesting experiment. I expect that neither the pencil nor the charcoal has any chemicals that will leach through over time. I presume the top coats will seal in the graphite / carbon.

 

I'm looking forward to your follow up on this. You never know, sometimes things that seem farfetched at first can work out. I'm always looking for new ways to do things.

[Duncan Doenitz]

I have a couple of spare parts where I can try the technique and take some pics.  As the house is full of teenagers and I work from home, I don't have a dedicated hobby den. The airbrush cabinet has to be assembled in the kitchen and vented through the extractor system ........hence airbrush sessions have to be scheduled around the domestic goddess.

 

Pre-shading without an airbrush means I can work on a model whenever I want. If a method can also be backed out quickly then it's win win win !

 

Far fetched ideas can often be winners, who the heck tried eating blue cheese ?  

[quang]

46 minutes ago, Duncan Doenitz said:

 

Far fetched ideas can often be winners, who the heck tried eating blue cheese ?  

I did. You’d be astounded to know how many variants there are, each one more distinct than the other.