"Pre-shading is a stupid idea!"

[jeroen_R90S]

It's just a matter of definition (semantics?) ... when you put on a base colour, shade that, then use a blend coat over it all, just how is that shading layer not preshading too?

I've never been a fan of putting dark lines around panels anway, I always use more colours and add random streaks and spots

 

Here's a little sequence I did wayyyy back in 2009(!)":

This was also post-shaded with various light and dark versions of the base colours (good old Humbrol 127 and 128!) If you lightly overspray it all with base colour to blend things, is the post shading still post shading, or just a different form of preshading?

Many things I would  do different now, that's for sure!

To everyone's horror I even brush painted the walkways

 

Just do as you like yourself and have fun, I prefer actual building and painting to watching yoootube, too, I guess the clickbait worked this time and made me watch it  

 

Jeroen

Edited February 21, 2023 by jeroen_R90S

[Woody V]

[Thunnus]

I'm confused...

 

At 12:23, she says...

"So if I want color, correct color or full color, I cannot also have shading. That's why preshading, fundamentally, is a flawed concept. You cannot have an accurate color... and how much time, effort and money do we, as modelers, spend choppsing on (= talking?) about color, what color should I paint this?, what's the best paint to match that color?, and then, willfully, go and paint it on the model in such a way that it isn't actually... actually showing the color that it's supposed to be.  It's nonsensical honestly, isn't it?"

 

But this line of reasoning directly contradicts her earlier presentation, near the 3:00 mark, of the six different shades of "black" (Tamiya XF-1 Flat Black, LP-5 Black, XF-85 Rubber Black, XF-69 NATO Black and XF-24 German Grey) that she uses on her black models.  She describes XF-85 as, "my default black for everything, pretty much everything that needs to be black, I actually use this color, which is slightly less dark... than pure black."

 

If she is serious about portraying the "correct color or full color"  of black, wouldn't she be using a pure black like XF-1 as a default?  Why use a brownish black like XF-85?  Conversely, if she believes that a pure black isn't the best choice to represent black on a model and instead use a brownish black, why condemn another method just because it doesn't give you a pure black result?

 

 

 

 

[Thunnus]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:27 AM, quang said:

 

Exactly!

Painter artists often make a rough pencil sketch on their canvas before starting the main painting.

To me, preshading a model is akin to that preliminary stage. It’s not meant to be apparent in the final result but works as a guide to help the painter ‘feel’ the subject. 

 

I've never found the words myself but you describe so aptly one of the reasons why I like to pre-shade my models. Thank you!

[mozart]

10 hours ago, Thunnus said:

 

…….this line of reasoning directly contradicts her earlier presentation, near the 3:00 mark, of the six different shades of "black" (Tamiya XF-1 Flat Black, LP-5 Black, XF-85 Rubber Black, XF-69 NATO Black and XF-24 German Grey) that she uses on her black models.  She describes XF-85 as, "my default black for everything, pretty much everything that needs to be black, I actually use this color, which is slightly less dark... than pure black."

 

If she is serious about portraying the "correct color or full color"  of black, wouldn't she be using a pure black like XF-1 as a default?  Why use a brownish black like XF-85?  Conversely, if she believes that a pure black isn't the best choice to represent black on a model and instead use a brownish black, why condemn another method just because it doesn't give you a pure black result?

I don’t see any contradiction at all here John. My understanding of what she is saying is that pre-mixes different combinations of black/grey plus red/blue in order to achieve variations in coloured surfaces, I don’t think she is building this up by layers. “Pure” black doesn’t exist as a surface colour because there is always going to be the effect of light playing on it. The only time I’ve (scarily) witnessed true black was deep down a coal mine! 

[quang]

3 hours ago, mozart said:

The only time I’ve (scarily) witnessed true black was deep down a coal mine! 

You forgot to mention ‘at midnight’ 

[mozart]

1 hour ago, quang said:

You forgot to mention ‘at midnight’ 

I'm always in bed by then.....

[jbrennan]

On 2/20/2023 at 7:56 AM, mozart said:

It’s worth watching Hardcore, just grit your teeth, get a nice cup of tea and a chocolate biscuit, settle down in your favourite armchair and enjoy the video. I didn’t watch all of it, didn’t need to beyond the focal point of the subject of pre-shading. 

 

On 2/20/2023 at 7:56 AM, mozart said:

It’s worth watching Hardcore, just grit your teeth, get a nice cup of tea and a chocolate biscuit, settle down in your favourite armchair and enjoy the video. I didn’t watch all of it, didn’t need to beyond the focal point of the subject of pre-shading. 

Must admit I didn't watch all of it either, pre shading not my thing etc. Regarding patience, Its running out at the moment on my current kit build, not the kits fault, my crap paint job. Ho hum, some days great some not so 

[Thunnus]

11 hours ago, mozart said:

I don’t see any contradiction at all here John. My understanding of what she is saying is that pre-mixes different combinations of black/grey plus red/blue in order to achieve variations in coloured surfaces, I don’t think she is building this up by layers. “Pure” black doesn’t exist as a surface colour because there is always going to be the effect of light playing on it. The only time I’ve (scarily) witnessed true black was deep down a coal mine! 

I understand what she's doing when she's describing the six versions of black PLUS the modification of black using other colors.  And I agree Max... there is no such thing as a one true or correct or full color in modeling.  But the first paragraph that I transcribed from the video is saying the complete opposite.

[D.B. Andrus]

What I see here is a difference of opinion, no more, no less.

 

Cheers,

Damian

[quang]

1 hour ago, Thunnus said:

there is no such thing as a one true or correct or full color in modeling.

Haha now you’re talking 

For years, I tried to persuade my fellow IPMSers that there’s no point in comparing the paints we apply to our models with ‘official’ references like R.A.L. BS or FS , much less trying to replicate those ‘authentic’ colours.

At least now I know I’m not the only one! 

Edited February 23, 2023 by quang

[tucohoward]

Correct and full colors are great for cars, real or model, but not really for what we build for the most part IMHO. I like tonal variation whether it’s achieved through pre-shading, post-shading, or both. I use all of the above in some fashion. If I have paint left over in the airbrush cup I usually spray it on another model that’s waiting for paint as part of the pre-shading/undercoat. I thought her approach wasn’t nearly aggressive enough but that’s just me, and my favorite painter is Ralph Riese, so that probably explains that.

 

Jay

[mozart]

13 hours ago, quang said:

Haha now you’re talking 

For years, I tried to persuade my fellow IPMSers that there’s no point in comparing the paints we apply to our models with ‘official’ references like R.A.L. BS or FS , much less trying to replicate those ‘authentic’ colours.

At least now I know I’m not the only one! 

You are not alone Quang! I always liken the “change” of colour with scale to aerial perspective; view a series of hills or mountains for example and their colour changes with distance. To my mind the same principle applies with the reduced size of models versus the real thing, where one could think of the model being a real object but further away. I am very aware that others don’t subscribe to this theory (one may turn up shortly ) but that’s the beauty of free speech! 

[Smokeyforgothispassword]

16 hours ago, D.B. Andrus said:

What I see here is a difference of opinion, no more, no less.

 

Cheers,

Damian

 

No you don't

[jbrennan]

15 hours ago, quang said:

Haha now you’re talking 

For years, I tried to persuade my fellow IPMSers that there’s no point in comparing the paints we apply to our models with ‘official’ references like R.A.L. BS or FS , much less trying to replicate those ‘authentic’ colours.

At least now I know I’m not the only one! 

Indeed you are not. If it looks right it is right, I loose no sleep over so called correct RLMs etc. The 'experts' don't agree with each other anyway and spend valuable time arguing when they could be building kits. Life is too short, keep it simple and enjoyable.