Anyone got any period photos of Spitfires with oil canning?

[Gazzas]

HI everyone...

    My Kotare Spit could arrive any day.  Without rivets, it looks like a fun almost-blank slate to work with.  No postwar photos, please.   I don't have much faith that these postwar treasures haven't been moved by cranes and trucks, been bumped in civilian hangars, walked over by guys much heavier than WWII ground crews, or possibly just been stretched by years of gravity.

 

Whatcha got?

[geedubelyer]

Great topic Gazzas.  

Should help anyone considering adding the effect to their Spitfires.

[Christa]

Morning Gazzas

 

Have you seen Wingleader Photo Archive Number 1; Supermarine Spitfire Mk1? Good pictures with useful text.

 

Gravity stretching! At last I know why my jeans got bigger.

 

 

[Gazzas]

8 minutes ago, Christa said:

Morning Gazzas

 

Have you seen Wingleader Photo Archive Number 1; Supermarine Spitfire Mk1? Good pictures with useful text.

 

Gravity stretching! At last I know why my jeans got bigger.

 

 

 

I don;t have any Spitfire specific publications.  I'll see if i can find it for a decent price somewhere close.  As for gravity...   it brings down mountains.

[thierry laurent]

Oil canning generally appears during service life. There are exceptions but this is the main rule. If you look at the service life duration of a majority of Spitfire airframes, they simply did not have the time to see such an evolution. Actually, this is the same for paint damage going down to metal. Paint quality could vary but as all metal parts were primed, paint was scratched and showed color variations but this very rarely go to the metal surface in some months, barely some weeks! Consequently, even if this brings life, weathering and aging of some scale models is simply inaccurate, a good example being BoB Spitfires.

[quang]

The current trend of adding ‘oil canning’ and ‘riveting’ on everything in sight is like putting wrinkles on teenagers and acne on elders. 
They call it ‘time reversal’ in sci-fi. 

[Sabrejet]

1940 shot of N3277, with not much usage but exhibiting skin panting, especially aft of the fuselage code letter. It's not always dependent on gravity or service use - depending on the method of riveting or even the ability of the guy or gal on the rivet gun, you will get a similar effect regarding rivet row depression and/or panting. You can also get a similar effect on rivetted trailing edges, depending on the riveting method. Ditto if there is a soft substrate such as sealant or (in olden times) felt or asbestos insulation/isolation layers being applied. It's often most apparent (visible) before any primer goes on, when a reflective surface will enhance the irregularity. But since the primer goes on pretty quickly, it's difficult to see that and on a painted panel you need a raking light.

 

The key then is the scale of representation on a kit: as with the photo below, it's visible (as are individual rivets) at a fair distance and from what I've seen of it on the 1/24 F6F, I'd say it's not overdone.

 

Remember also that rivet application was subject to a lot of variety in manufacture and service. Some manufacturers applied a dimple or countersink to the skin prior to riveting and no final working; others did a similar thing but with a shallower countersink followed by milling of the head. Supermarine did the latter in later years and the as-manufactured skins of some of their products were an absolute mess from milling overrun on countersunk rivets. Note that this is "as-manufactured", so straight from the factory they were not always what you'd expect.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Sabrejet

[DrDave]

1 hour ago, thierry laurent said:

Oil canning generally appears during service life. There are exceptions but this is the main rule. If you look at the service life duration of a majority of Spitfire airframes, they simply did not have the time to see such an evolution. Actually, this is the same for paint damage going down to metal. Paint quality could vary but as all metal parts were primed, paint was scratched and showed color variations but this very rarely go to the metal surface in some months, barely some weeks! Consequently, even if this brings life, weathering and aging of some scale models is simply inaccurate, a good example being BoB Spitfires.

But there are pre war early mark 1s with the wing root worn down to bare metal…

[DrDave]

https://www.alamy.com/ww2-spitfire-over-england-the-raf-supermarine-spitfire-was-a-british-single-seat-fighter-aircraft-used-by-the-royal-air-force-and-other-allied-countries-before-during-and-after-world-war-ii-many-variants-of-the-spitfire-were-built-using-several-wing-configurations-and-it-was-produced-in-greater-numbers-than-any-other-british-aircraft-it-was-an-iconic-fighter-aircraft-that-helped-win-the-battle-of-britain-image398783608.html

[thierry laurent]

7 minutes ago, DrDave said:

But there are pre war early mark 1s with the wing root worn down to bare metal…

Of course as they were used for years before the war. However, we are considering here a very, very small proportion. When I looked for a BoB scheme for my Mk.I I was amazed seeing how short has been the lifetime of a lot of BoB airframes ..

[Palm-tree]

With respect to all of the previous posters,

 

I don’t see any problem with observing oil canning skin wrinkling or any other stress related damage on airframes of this era.

Even brand new aircraft were very quickly subjected to high-G forces during combat some even exceeding the designed limits.

 

Geoffrey Wellum mentions that one of his aircraft had to have the wings removed and the aircraft was grounded after one such air combat where he was literally manoevring the aircraft to ensure his very survival.

 

Of course the longer an airframe exists, the more ripples and dimples are likely to be seen…..

 

 

 

 

[thierry laurent]

Well, there is a difference between the possible and the probable! I'm always explaining to modelling friends they can do what they want with their models and if they can find at least one picture demonstrating what they are representing is possible, this is even better. However, this does not mean this was probable or significantly representative...

[Finn]

Here are a couple of videos of Spitfires getting repaired at a factory:

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060021239

 

Jari

[Derek B]

 

Derek

Edited November 28, 2022 by Derek B

[Derek B]