How Many Unrestored Birds Remain?

[Rick Griewski]

On 10/31/2022 at 11:56 PM, LSP_K2 said:

To address the original question, I suspect it's quite a challenge to determine if an aircraft is an un-restored original factory scheme, or an un-restored, pieced together air-frame. Without clear provenance of all the parts, panels, and whatnot, it might be very difficult indeed.

 

Un-restored doesn't necessarily mean original.

IIRC the mixed fuselage, engines, etc. are the most straight forward to identify and track down because of the ID tags on the components. These can be a link to a factory and maybe paint technology and colors.  A very small area of certainty during a larger war. 
 

A modeling inspiration for me to paint it my way is the particular VVS I-16 in winter camo on skis with the replaced rudder; stars do not match.  That ac has been portrayed with a black cowl and a green cowl. I look at BW photos and… pick black for my model. Some model builders use green. So if the under nose of your Bf-109 looks lighter or different color then do it or not

Edited November 4, 2022 by Rick Griewski

[Rick Griewski]

Getting back to your question, not many.   There was a Bf-109E kept in a warehouse in the Detroit/Ypsilanti area for years. Dicey and secret it was.   The owner worked on the engine and not much else.  IIRC it was later sold to someone in Canada that made it run and taxi.  Even with a long storage and little or no repaint.  None knows what was done to it before he bought it. The plane was IIRC used during war bond tours. 

[thierry laurent]

The Corsair in the Yeovilton FAA museum is possibly one of the very rare examples. However I do not know any WW2 Luftwaffe example.

[LSP_K2]

4 hours ago, Rick Griewski said:

IIRC the mixed fuselage, engines, etc. are the most straight forward to identify and track down because of the ID tags on the components. These can be a link to a factory and maybe paint technology and colors.  A very small area of certainty during a larger war. 
 

A modeling inspiration for me to paint it my way is the particular VVS I-16 in winter camo on skis with the replaced rudder; stars do not match.  That ac has been portrayed with a black cowl and a green cowl. I look at BW photos and… pick black for my model. Some model builders use green. So if the under nose of your Bf-109 looks lighter or different color then do it or not

 

I'd certainly never try to dissuade someone from painting a particular plane as photos depict it. I have in mind a scheme for a particular G-10 that's also apparently a hodge-podge collection of parts. It varies enough from the typical schemes we see depicted on many '109s, to just look very interesting and different, at least to me. I love later war '109s for that very reason.

[Rick Griewski]

K2,

I too like the schemes on the G-10 and K ac. They are the most challenging to paint.  I will get one painted one day.  

[Shoggz]

16 hours ago, thierry laurent said:

The Corsair in the Yeovilton FAA museum is possibly one of the very rare examples. However I do not know any WW2 Luftwaffe example.

 

That is possibly the most fascinating aircraft I’ve ever seen in a museum.

[Sabrejet]

22 hours ago, thierry laurent said:

The Corsair in the Yeovilton FAA museum is possibly one of the very rare examples. However I do not know any WW2 Luftwaffe example.

 

+1 to that. The folks at Yeovilton were way ahead of the game when they conserved the Corsair. I think 'Flak Bait' (B-26) is another candidate. But it's really sad to see how many warbirds have in the intervening years lost their originality. The airworthy machines in particular are an example of this cultural vandalism. And yes I know that many airworthy P-51s and Spitfires are replicas, but an equally large number claim the identity of an original example which has either been scrapped or denied public display. It's a dark side of our hobby which hopefully has a finite life.

[Captain Boogaloo]

Except that often heard opinion really does not hold water these days, having been involved in warbird restoration I can tell you many owners make extraordinary efforts to accurately restore their aircraft - from reproducing correct colours and markings to including correct mechanical parts (even if they don't function) for example P 51 Mustang rebuilds with makers marks printed on internal skins, even functioning guns on one restoration - Kermit Weeks Mk IX Spitfire is the only airworthy aircraft with a full wartime fitment of guns and associated parts ( no extra wing fuel tanks here!) so it does happen - with the bonus of being able to see/hear the aircraft in its natural environment.

Clive du Cross built an excellent airworthy wooden replica of the prototype (with others in France and the US also building full size, wooden Allison engined replicas), only these can accurately be described as replicas; the airworthy original aircraft retain their airframe manufacturers data plate since all parts in an airframe might be replaced to maintain airworthy status but The Airframe retains its identity. The parts are repaired/replaced with ones made from the correct spec material to the manufacturers drawings or original components; restored aircraft are not replicas. They are also not 'claiming the identity of an original example that has been scrapped ' or owned by 'cultural vandals'; quite the opposite - without exception the warbird owners I know are aware they are custodians of these incredible machines, keeping alive the memories and achievements of men and women who sacrificed so much for our freedom. 

I'm happy to be able to report despite the recent tragedy in Texas, the worldwide warbird scene goes from strength to strength, with more and more restoration of aircraft completed and new projects begun. Enthusiasts of warbirds will be able to enjoy these aircraft where they should be for a very long time to come - in the air!

 

Blue Skies!

Captain Boogaloo

[John1]

On 11/5/2022 at 7:08 AM, Shoggz said:

 

That is possibly the most fascinating aircraft I’ve ever seen in a museum.

There is a book dedicated to this aircraft (I forget the title but I've got it buried in my stash) that goes over every aspect of the paintwork, interior and exterior in detail.   A fantastic book for uber-nerds like myself. 

[John1]

There is a nice, unrestored P-38 at the NASM.   Not a combat vet but still a fascinating mix of paintwork and weathering.

 

 

 

[John1]

2 minutes ago, John1 said:

There is a nice, unrestored P-38 at the NASM.   Not a combat vet but still a fascinating mix of paintwork and weathering.

 

 

 

Also have a much more beaten up Komet in original paint (as far I know).

[Shoggz]

7 hours ago, John1 said:

There is a book dedicated to this aircraft (I forget the title but I've got it buried in my stash) that goes over every aspect of the paintwork, interior and exterior in detail.   A fantastic book for uber-nerds like myself. 

 

Yeah, and I was lucky enough to find a copy in a air museum shop selling for just a couple of quid!

Note to self: Must get around to reading it.