Phantom landing gear downlock question

[rjones726]

I've been going over references for USMC F-4B phantoms in Vietnam trying to pick up on some of the details . I know that on board carriers, a downlock device was installed on the landing gear to prevent inadvertent gear retraction while on deck. My question involves USMC and variants used by USAF. Did Phantoms operating from airbases ashore have the red downlocks installed as well?

Thanks,

Rob

 

Edit: fixed the title

Edited October 18, 2022 by rjones726

[Finn]

Yes:

 

 

and no:

 

Jari

 

[phasephantomphixer]

Speaking for late 80's Air Force stateside, only time we removed them was for gear retraction checks, and of course before flight.

I would prefer that kits had them in place!

[rjones726]

Great photos Jari.  Thanks. I suspected everyone used them, as physics and the ability of humans to do dumb things is universal

[thierry laurent]

They were part of the standard accessories like the FOD protections, security pins or probe covers.

[Finn]

A couple more examples:

 

 

but when it is ready for the aircrew to show up they were removed:

 

 

Jari

[Dave Williams]

You rarely see the red retraction strut clamps on parked modern jets like the Eagle, Falcon, Hornet, etc, unless they are undergoing maintenance.  Did the F-4 not have weight on wheels switches or other devices to prevent inadvertent gear retraction?

[Ben Brown]

F-4s did have WoW switches, but if I'm not mistaken, they relied on hydraulic pressure in the retraction struts to keep the gear down. Same as the F-101, which is why they had a problem with main gear collapses early in their career. Also a SWAG, perhaps the Hornet, Viper, and Eagle have some kind of overcenter locking mechanism on the struts, so they're mechanically locked down? Perhaps @Gene K and @Pete Fleischmann can comment, since they have stick time in F-4s and F-16s. I think there's at least one Eagle driver here, too.

 

Ben

[LSP_K2]

I'm quite sure at least a couple of Phantom kits came with them, but don't recall which ones at the moment, nor the scale.

[thierry laurent]

Flightpath made them in their set for the Revell Phantom. 

[Greif8]

One of my uncles served as an 6014 aircraft mechanic (first combat tour) and a 6019 Aircraft Maintenance Chief (second combat tour) in the Marine Corps.  He was deployed twice to Vietnam; the first time with VMFA 115 and the second time with VMFA 314.  I asked him about the use of downlock devices on Phantoms and he gave me a very definitive yes to my question. 

 

Ernest    

[Finn]

Here is one being towed with a load of bombs but no nose ground lock:

 

 

Jari

[Gene K]

On 10/20/2022 at 4:20 AM, Ben Brown said:

F-4s did have WoW switches, but if I'm not mistaken, they relied on hydraulic pressure in the retraction struts to keep the gear down.

 

Sorry I didn't see your post earlier (I'm spending too much time flying RC). Here's some pertinent info from the Flight Manual:

 

"Accidental retraction of the landing gear when the aircraft is on the ground is prevented by safety switches on the main gear. Ground safety locks may also be  installed to further prevent inadvertent retraction".

 

Main Gear:

"When the gear handle is UP and weight is off the gear, the gear will retract ...  The gear is locked down by an internal finger type latch in each side brace actuator".

 

Nose Gear:

"The gear is locked in the down position by an internal finger latch within the gear actuating cylinder".

 

I have seen a flight line "kneeling" mishap where the nose gear was retracted on the ground ... only once, but have never seen a picture. As an aside and along those lines, I never saw the wings folded when airborne as shown here: 

 

 

Rare.

 

Gene K

Edited December 4, 2022 by Gene K

[Peter Greengrass]

7 hours ago, Gene K said:

I have seen a flight line "kneeling" mishap where the nose gear was retracted on the ground ... only once, but have never seen a picture. 

 

Here's one

 

[Gene K]

Ouch!

 

The one I saw was an F-4E with the radome resting on the flightline. Not as much of a kneel as in your photo.

Thanks for that most interesting illustration.

 

Gene K.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Gene K