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1/32 Douglas TBD-1 Devastator by Trumpeter


Kagemusha
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52 minutes ago, Oldbaldguy said:

There is extant on line a photo of one LCDR Lance Massey of VT-3 who was killed at Midway along with everybody else in the TBD community save one.  It is a PR shot of Massey in the cockpit.  If you enlarge the photo, you can see clearly - in my mind anyway - that the black strips everyone is in such a twist about are simply hard rubber strips between the three pieces that make up the center panel of the windscreen.  They are not metal rods, braces or anything else inside the cockpit.  I would imagine that the technology surrounding compound curved bullet resisting glass at the time was limited and Douglas found it easier/cheaper/quicker to make the Devastator’s windshield in three pieces rather than one.  Why narrow rubber strips over more conventional aluminum framing you ask?  Probably to give the pilot a better view of the flight deck and LSO when coming aboard.  Or maybe to allow him a better view of his target.  Or maybe they just wanted to do build them that way.  Sadly, no one who built these airplanes is available to tell us.

 

 

I made reference, up the thread a ways, to having copied a chunk of a large TIFF file that's located on the Naval Heritage website. It was, in fact, a piece of the Massey photo that you mention:

 

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/us-people/m/massey-lance-e/80-g-66074.html

 

I agree that the black strip we've been discussing is likely rubber, at least mostly. However, the pic from page 44 of the Schiffer book suggests that it might have a metal core, perhaps for reinforcement. I'll try and take a good "pic of the pic" today, after I've got my chores done.

 

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Here's a 4k x 3k image capture of the photo on page 44 of the Schiff TBD book:

 

Original-Pic.jpg

 

 

And here's "a capture of the capture:"

 

 

Rubber-Sleeve.jpg

 

The original pic was taken with a 10x Macro-Lens. The circles denote what appears to be sleeving, rubber perhaps, over some other material, metal perhaps.

Edited by ivanmoe
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4 hours ago, Oldbaldguy said:

There is extant on line a photo of one LCDR Lance Massey of VT-3 who was killed at Midway along with everybody else in the TBD community save one.  It is a PR shot of Massey in the cockpit.  If you enlarge the photo, you can see clearly - in my mind anyway - that the black strips everyone is in such a twist about are simply hard rubber strips between the three pieces that make up the center panel of the windscreen.  They are not metal rods, braces or anything else inside the cockpit.  I would imagine that the technology surrounding compound curved bullet resisting glass at the time was limited and Douglas found it easier/cheaper/quicker to make the Devastator’s windshield in three pieces rather than one.  Why narrow rubber strips over more conventional aluminum framing you ask?  Probably to give the pilot a better view of the flight deck and LSO when coming aboard.  Or maybe to allow him a better view of his target.  Or maybe they just wanted to do build them that way.  Sadly, no one who built these airplanes is available to tell us.

 

I don't know where you've seen anyone in a twist over this, but rather just some guys trying to determine what they are seeing, and perhaps what they're made of as well, in addition to figuring out their function.

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36 minutes ago, LSP_Ray said:

Could be a hard rubber H-section piece to hold the edges of the glass, possibly with a metal reinforcing core molded in.

 

That's a distinct possibility, Ray. Closer examination of the photo I added, seems to show a raised area, not only for the scope passage, but the vertical object adjacent to it as well. I'm still leaning toward the notion that it is not a traditional frame, as Dave originally pointed out.

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3 hours ago, LSP_K2 said:

 

That's a distinct possibility, Ray. Closer examination of the photo I added, seems to show a raised area, not only for the scope passage, but the vertical object adjacent to it as well. I'm still leaning toward the notion that it is not a traditional frame, as Dave originally pointed out.

Soooooooo, if and when I build this, I'm just going to mask off the "frames" and take them down as far as I dare [ at least get those infernal rivets gone ] and paint it black , Not too worried about the inside part as I don't know exactly how it is , and I don't think anyone living knows. Also speaking of rivets, has anybody seen the fuselage ? I'm sure that there's raised rivets on it just guessing ,you understand]

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28 minutes ago, CRAZY IVAN5 said:

Soooooooo, if and when I build this, I'm just going to mask off the "frames" and take them down as far as I dare [ at least get those infernal rivets gone ] and paint it black , Not too worried about the inside part as I don't know exactly how it is , and I don't think anyone living knows. Also speaking of rivets, has anybody seen the fuselage ? I'm sure that there's raised rivets on it just guessing ,you understand]

Like on their Dauntless, I'm sure.

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8 hours ago, ivanmoe said:

 

They look like little buttons in the book(s), thousands of little buttons.

Ah, then they 're raised button head rivets. Now I'm willing to bet that Trumpeter has "flush" rivets I hope I'm wrong [well their version of flush rivets , divots?]

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3 hours ago, CRAZY IVAN5 said:

Ah, then they 're raised button head rivets. Now I'm willing to bet that Trumpeter has "flush" rivets I hope I'm wrong [well their version of flush rivets , divots?]

 

Depending on the paint work (light gray being the worst), the rivets can actually be difficult to see, even in a close-up. The rivets, not to be confused with panel fasteners, do exhibit a tiny bit of relief. However, it's so small that I'm not sure how a manufacturer could satisfactorily render them in 1/32 scale. In 1-to-1, the apex of the rivets might stand 1/8" above the surrounding aluminum. Again, I'm not sure how that can be translated, visually, into the model's smaller scale. My comments are based on an examination of pics in the Schiffer/Doyle book.

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5 hours ago, ivanmoe said:

Depending on the paint work (light gray being the worst), the rivets can actually be difficult to see, even in a close-up. The rivets, not to be confused with panel fasteners, do exhibit a tiny bit of relief. However, it's so small that I'm not sure how a manufacturer could satisfactorily render them in 1/32 scale. In 1-to-1, the apex of the rivets might stand 1/8" above the surrounding aluminum. Again, I'm not sure how that can be translated, visually, into the model's smaller scale. My comments are based on an examination of pics in the Schiffer/Doyle book.

I think this is likely to be an issue for relatively few modellers.  Scale effect, paint and poor eyesight all add up to not really noticing any difference on a scale model of 1/8" in real life. Add to that a gentle buff before top coat and any realistic moulded rivet will have disappeared. I'd much rather have a slight divot, at least if you choose, you can deceive the eye and visually bring out the rivet with some wash.  

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In anticipation of the Trumpeter TBD release, I just pulled out my copy of the Schiffer TBD Devastator Book by Doyle. I hadn’t looked at it in the longest time. 
I have to agree with others here, this is a great book and reference on the TBD— probably the best out there. And I have gathered up all the references on the TBD over the years.

Just saying— for those that may be looking at building a Trumpeter 1/32 Devastator!

Bill M.

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1 hour ago, Bill M. said:

In anticipation of the Trumpeter TBD release, I just pulled out my copy of the Schiffer TBD Devastator Book by Doyle. I hadn’t looked at it in the longest time. 
I have to agree with others here, this is a great book and reference on the TBD— probably the best out there. And I have gathered up all the references on the TBD over the years.

Just saying— for those that may be looking at building a Trumpeter 1/32 Devastator!

Bill M.

 

It indeed is an excellent reference,.. and cheap too, which I really like.

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