Best F4-E Phantom? … advice?

[thierry laurent]

I forgot adding that the Quinta set will not give you a full Air Force cockpit as such. You still need the full tub. Indeed, all the Navy Phantoms had a different WSO starboard station (no console). Hopefully, out of my memory the parts are in all kits. In any case, forget the C or J option. They are not realistic solutions. The fuselage error I mentioned is the shape of the rear fuselage slope, just before the exhausts. This is an issue in all Tamiya kits.

[Artful69]

1 hour ago, Dave Williams said:

-The fuselage is essentially the same on all of the Tamiya F-4 kits.  The nose is cut back on the E and EJ kit fuselages to attach the gun nose parts, but from the cockpit back it’s all the same.

 

-The missiles are the same in all of the boxings, but not all of the kits have the bombs and MERs/TERs.  The J kit lack the bombs, but they are included in the J Marines boxings.  All the Air Force Phantom kits all have the bombs.  BTW, the Sidewinders represent AIM-9E models, which were never used by the Navy.

 

-The nose is vastly different between the gun nosed F-4s and the radar nosed F-4s.  Aside from being longer, and having a long underside fairing for the gun, the nose gear doors are different as they are part of the fairing.  Just look at pictures of the versions, and it’s pretty obvious.

 

-It’s actually slots, not slats, on the stabilizers.  The C/D lacks the slot on the leading edge of the stab.  The J and E/EJ versions have a slot.  Slats are on the wing.

 

-Yes, the straight pylons are in the J kit, but the curved pylons are not in the straight J boxings.  Both pylons are in the J Marines boxings, because the curved pylons are on the bomb sprues.  The C/D and E/EJ kits only have the curved pylons.

 

There are tweak lists for the Tamiya Phantom kits here on LSP that are worth reviewing.

 

It honestly isn’t worth converting a J kit to a gun nose F-4.

 

 

 

Dave ... 

Thanks heaps for your insights (and also Thierry's!!)

 

Please be patient with me while I follow this through logically ... I am assuming (after a THOROUGH search!!) the ONLY Tamiya E/EJ kits I can find will cost me in excess of $400 AUD to get to Australia (maybe a fraction less for an EJ JASDF Kit) ... and following your points ...

 

- Essentially the nose is the only big issue as it is different from either the C/D or the J ... correct?

- So if my starting point WAS to be a J ... It would need to be a "Marines" boxing in order to have the correct ordinance and pylons to create an E.

- Slots - The J variant has a slot in the leading edge of the stabiliser - this is also present on latter E variants as well as the EJ ... apparently the Tamiya E kit is for an 'early' E which doesn't have the slot maybe?? ... now I don't know whether the RAAF Phantoms were early or later releases ... so I don't know whether slotted or un-slotted is the way to go. BUT the Tamiya "Marines J" kit will have the slotted stabilisers.

- Ordinance - So again ... the "Marines J" boxing seems to be a better donor kit than a J or C/D boxing

 

Now ... I can get a "Marines J" kit for about $200 AUD delivered ... and I can get sprues for the E/EJ nose and stabilisers for about $40 each shipped.

 

Even with that farting around ... I'm $120 AUD better off on the conversion option it would seem

 

Thoughts?

 

Kind regards

Rog

 

[thierry laurent]

If you get all the sprues I showed in an older post (ebay links) as well as a F-4J Marines kit you should be OK. 

 

What you can do: go there and download the instructions of both kits. This will give you a good view of the differences and the required sprues: 

https://www.scalemates.com/fr/kits/tamiya-60308-mcdonnell-douglas-f-4j-phantom-ii--106072

https://www.scalemates.com/fr/kits/tamiya-60310-mcdonnell-douglas-f-4e-phantom-ii--131015

 

[Artful69]

15 minutes ago, thierry laurent said:

If you get all the sprues I showed in an older post (ebay links) as well as a F-4J Marines kit you should be OK. 

 

What you can do: go there and download the instructions of both kits. This will give you a good view of the differences and the required sprues: 

https://www.scalemates.com/fr/kits/tamiya-60308-mcdonnell-douglas-f-4j-phantom-ii--106072

https://www.scalemates.com/fr/kits/tamiya-60310-mcdonnell-douglas-f-4e-phantom-ii--131015

 

 

Hi Thierry

 

Thanks again ... 

There was 3 links for parts (1 for the radome, 1 for the 20mm cannon) ...

... and then 1 of them was for the stabilisers - I assume If I get the J Marines kit I will no longer need that one?

 

Rog

[Dave Williams]

Let’s clear up the stab issue once and for all.  All F-4Es, late or early, as well as the F-4EJ, had slotted stabs.  All F-4Js had slotted stabs.  The ONLY Tamiya F-4 kit that doesn’t come with slotted stabs is the C/D kit.

 

Looking at the parts sprues, you would need the M and L sprues from the E or EJ kit if you want to convert the J Marines boxing to a E.  The M sprue has the gun nose, and the L sprue has the gun parts.  Even if you don’t want to install the gun, there are still come critical parts on the L sprue, like the nose gear doors, that are needed.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Dave Williams

[Lee White]

19 hours ago, Artful69 said:

 

Ok ... just revisiting this option ...

 

Since I'm buying resin AM intakes and exhausts (nullifying the 'different' engines) ... and also a full Quinta interior set (which should nullify any interior changes) ... what else would need correcting? are there any major external shape issues?? ... problems with armament?? ...

 

Rog

The interior, especially in back is totally different. Where the right side console would be on an E is a wall that partitions off the refueling probe on the J. 

[Dave Williams]

1 hour ago, Lee White said:

The interior, especially in back is totally different. Where the right side console would be on an E is a wall that partitions off the refueling probe on the J. 

That is true, but kit wise, the AF cockpit rear parts are on the F sprue in the kits, and that sprue is in the -J kits, with the AF parts marked as unused.  The -J kits contain an extra sprue with the Navy rear cockpit changes, but the don’t remove the AF cockpit sprue from the original C/D kit.

[Artful69]

6 hours ago, Dave Williams said:

Let’s clear up the stab issue once and for all.  All F-4Es, late or early, as well as the F-4EJ, had slotted stabs.  All F-4Js had slotted stabs.  The ONLY Tamiya F-4 kit that doesn’t come with slotted stabs is the C/D kit.

 

Looking at the parts sprues, you would need the M and L sprues from the E or EJ kit if you want to convert the J Marines boxing to a E.  The M sprue has the gun nose, and the L sprue has the gun parts.  Even if you don’t want to install the gun, there are still come critical parts on the L sprue, like the nose gear doors, that are needed.

 

I can't recall where I saw it mentioned - a different thread maybe?? ... But someone mentioned that the difference between an 'Early' E and 'Late' E Phantom was slats or slots in wings somewhere ... Hell, I don't know, that's why I ask you guys!! ... It's only useful to know what I will need in relation to the Tamiya kits / Sprues etc ... so thanks for clearing that up. Either way I arrived at the same conclusion above - I need the clear gun nose parts (Sprue M) and the gun nose fit out (Sprue L) ...

 

3 hours ago, Lee White said:

The interior, especially in back is totally different. Where the right side console would be on an E is a wall that partitions off the refueling probe on the J. 

 

The Quinta studio parts are made specifically for each Tamiya variant - so it should be easy to find which parts to use ... and as for those correct parts to put them on, read below ...

 

1 hour ago, Dave Williams said:

That is true, but kit wise, the AF cockpit rear parts are on the F sprue in the kits, and that sprue is in the -J kits, with the AF parts marked as unused.  The -J kits contain an extra sprue with the Navy rear cockpit changes, but the don’t remove the AF cockpit sprue from the original C/D kit.

 

I might not know much about the actual aircraft ... but I'm going to be an expert on Tamiya boxings by the time I've finished!!

 

Cheers and thanks guys

Rog

[Dave Williams]

In the modeling world, generally the difference between an “early” F-4E and a “late” one is that the “late” ones had slatted wings.  All had the slotted stabs.

 

With the kit instructions from Scalemates, you know all of the parts sprues you need and have the assembly instructions for making an E model.  Get the -J Marines kit, the M and L sprues from the E or EJ kit, and follow the assembly instructions of the E kit.  You’ll have to cut the fuselage parts yourself to add the gun nose.  Done and done.