Tolga ULGUR Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Hello everyone, I would like to clarify the colors of my near future P-47 project. This will be -again a D22- 42-26288 known with the nose art "Stalag Luft- Button nose" It seems that this bird painted in the field due to NMF of rear cockpit area. And Upper surfaces painted RAF Ocean Grey / RAF Dark green. My question is for under surfaces: On decal sets and many built models, the bottom surfaces appear Med sea grey. However, the marked fields in the image below look like NMF. I would like to get your opinion on the under colors of this bird. Thanks in advance Tolga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayW Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Dollars to donuts - that exit door looks to be a field replacement where the paint was neglected. So - natural metal finish. The question would then be, what about the other side! I am certain the original factory part would have received the 56th FG camo colors. The landing gear doors - to my eye they appear light gray, or whatever color was used for the underside of the wings and the fuselage belly. It is out from under the shadow of the wing, and therefore looks lighter in the picture. To my eye.... Good luck! Nice subject! Tolga ULGUR and coogrfan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolga ULGUR Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 Thanks Jay After examining the pictures a little more, I realized that these two pictures may belong to different periods. In the first photo, there are D Day stripes. We can also see this on the left landing gear door. However, in the second poto, these stripes seem to have not been applied yet. coogrfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 (edited) I believe that this P-47D-22-RE was delivered in natural metal finish so portions of the underside may have been left natural metal. That being said, there's no doubt that this aircraft was camouflaged in the field (as evidenced by the green/grey paint scheme) and may have portions of the aircraft underside painted grey. If the underside was painted, the question is, to what extent was the aircraft underside painted? The answer unfortunately is that there is no definite answer. The only way you're going to be able to tell for sure is to find substantiating color photos of different areas of the aircraft. I would suggest you model the aircraft according to what you see in the reference photos you have. Were I to build this aircraft, I would leave the wing undersides, the horizontal stabilizer undersides, and lower fuselage natural metal (as I am in agreement with you that the landing gear cover [as well as the oil cooler air exit doors] is natural metal). I would bring the topside grey/green down the sides of the cowl to just below the wing. The image shows a lot of soiling (oil, dirt, etc.) on the side of the fuselage in front of the wing so there's no definitive demarcation line to use for a guide. Not really a lot of help here, just giving you my interpretation of the photo you posted. Edited May 24, 2022 by Juggernut TAG, D.B. Andrus, coogrfan and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAG Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Hey, fellas I am of the opinion that the 56th FG never painted the undersides of any of their NMF Jugs (Razorbacks or Bubbletops), no matter which topside colors each squadron chose for their birds. If one pays close attention it's possible to discern, even in black & white photos, that the 56th never bothered to spray the undersides of the planes once they started coming in unpainted from the depot. Focus on the gear cover and exhaust louvers/wastegate, which are areas that tend to catch and reflect sunlight, and you can tell it's still a natural metal finish, including the wings and belly of the plane. They did, however, usually paint the engine cowlings almost all the way around, or even sometimes all the way, which is why people think the whole underside is (fill-in-the-blank) gray. Naturally, this is pure conjecture on my part, I have nothing to back me up except my own perception of photos/reality, so take it with the corresponding amount of salt you deem necessary. It's one of those "once you've seen it, you can't 'unsee' it" kind of things, at least for me. Here's "Belle of Beaumont" in period color, am I the only one who sees NMF undersides?? Even in black & white it clearly looks like NMF to me. Cheers, -Thomaz adameliclem, daveculp, Tolga ULGUR and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolga ULGUR Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 Thanks for your comments @Juggernut and @TAG, appreciated. And I would like to ask last question about overpainted of upper surfaces D day stripes. The color is Olive drab or RAF Dark green? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adameliclem Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Hi Tolga, The definition of the rivet heads (dark and light anodized) on the undercarriage door strongly suggests a natural aluminum finish on that part, which could have been original or a replacement. Looking at the color photo in Ethel and Sand’s “Fighter Command,” it looks like the dark green was brought down to a sharp edge on the panel line of the keel. On the cowl, the dark green appears to terminate in a soft sprayed margin. The cowl bottom looks grey and the keel natural aluminum, but that’s just my impression. Here’s a shot of Knafelz in the cockpit from the American Air Museum, if you haven’t seen it yet. It looks like the windscreen framing is dark green with the canopy framing bare aluminum, but that’s just my take. Cheers, Adam D.B. Andrus, Tolga ULGUR and coogrfan 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolga ULGUR Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 8 minutes ago, adameliclem said: Hi Tolga, The definition of the rivet heads (dark and light anodized) on the undercarriage door strongly suggests a natural aluminum finish on that part, which could have been original or a replacement. Looking at the color photo in Ethel and Sand’s “Fighter Command,” it looks like the dark green was brought down to a sharp edge on the panel line of the keel. On the cowl, the dark green appears to terminate in a soft sprayed margin. The cowl bottom looks grey and the keel natural aluminum, but that’s just my impression. Here’s a shot of Knafelz in the cockpit from the American Air Museum, if you haven’t seen it yet. It looks like the windscreen framing is dark green with the canopy framing bare aluminum, but that’s just my take. Cheers, Adam Thanks Adam, appreciated. adameliclem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayW Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Well based on some of this discussion - I am now thinking the LG door is indeed NMF, along with alot of the entire underside of the aircraft. Great catch everyone. And Tolga - some of that guesswork should now be eliminated. Tolga ULGUR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayW Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 21 hours ago, TAG said: Here's "Belle of Beaumont" in period color, am I the only one who sees NMF undersides?? Even in black & white it clearly looks like NMF to me. Did anyone notice the mismatching wing tanks? War-time urgency reflected in this excellent photo. And - only my favorite war bird the P-47. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolga ULGUR Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, JayW said: Did anyone notice the mismatching wing tanks? War-time urgency reflected in this excellent photo. And - only my favorite war bird the P-47. Yes I just finished this bird. JayW 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayW Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Well shoot! You are all over this 56th FG P-47 thing! Nice model! Tolga ULGUR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Well, FWIW, I am in the natural metal undersides camp. Mark Proulx Tolga ULGUR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeone57 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 I also am, have been, in the 56th FG NMF undersides on their P-47D(Razorback/Bubbletop) and P-47M's. In my observations/opinion it is clear in all photos of their aircraft, with Gabreskis' mount also included. Alfonso TAG, Mark P and Tolga ULGUR 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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