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ZM Henschel Hs.129B-3 pics


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6 minutes ago, Radub said:

 

Maybe "multiple options in one kit" makes sense when all parts are on common runners. In the Hs 129 kit, the various cannons are on separate runners, one separate runner for the MK 101, one separate runner for MK 103 and one separate runner for BK 7,5. You only need one runner for each model. Why would anyone want to have an extra runner that they cannot possibly need and will only end up in the bin? 

Radu

No, this has nothing to do with the sprues technical design. Even when all the optional parts are on a single sprue some manufacturers remove them thanks to sliding mold use or gates closure when workers do not remove them manually! This is typically a business decision!

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8 minutes ago, Radub said:

 

Maybe "multiple options in one kit" makes sense when all parts are on common runners. In the Hs 129 kit, the various cannons are on separate runners, one separate runner for the MK 101, one separate runner for MK 103 and one separate runner for BK 7,5. You only need one runner for each model. Why would anyone want to have an extra runner that they cannot possibly need and will only end up in the bin? 

Radu

 

Well this helps to clarify the issue somewhat, I guess ... perhaps sprue design happened AFTER that original kit designation tile happened?

 

Rog :)

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2 minutes ago, thierry laurent said:

No, this has nothing to do with the sprues technical design. Even when all the optional parts are on a single sprue some manufacturers remove them thanks to sliding mold use or gates closure when workers do not remove them manually! This is typically a business decision!

 

This is also true! - I have several kits in the stash with 'missing' parts on sprues because the boxing variant determines otherwise ... and the manufacturer has done exactly as you say above.

 

Meanwhile Dragons 35th scale kits infamously have blue sections in the instructions blotting out many areas of sprues that are "not for use" ... leaving the spare parts bins full of surplus plastic!! (seriously, I must have more than two 5L containers full of surplus parts from various kits) ...

 

There must be different scenarios here when manufacturers feel its more cost efficient through time and organisation to just shoot the damn plastic regardless 

 

Rog :)

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28 minutes ago, thierry laurent said:

No, this has nothing to do with the sprues technical design. Even when all the optional parts are on a single sprue some manufacturers remove them thanks to sliding mold use or gates closure when workers do not remove them manually! This is typically a business decision!


I strongly disagree. Zoukei Mura never cut off parts from the commmon runners. Take for example the 50 Kg bombs on the Hs 129. The B-1 and B-2 often carried one 50 Kg bomb under each wing while armed with either cannon. In the kit that ZM released in 2019 the 50 Kg bombs are included on the common runner that also includes the four-bomb rack used primarily by the Romanians and not relevant to the B-2 in the box.  If ZM were to be “mean” as implied by your post they would have cut off the four-bomb rack and bombs. But they did not. The existing kit also includes on the common runner the engine cowls for the B-1. If they were “mean” as implied by your post they would have cut off the cowls. But they did not. They are not removing any parts from common runners. Whatever other companies do is their business. 
The decision not to issue a Hs 129 kit with two separate runners for two separate cannons is not a commercial decision, it is a common sense decision. You only need one cannon, so whichever one you choose the other one automatically becomes waste plastic that will end up in a spares parts box or the rubbish bin. It just does not make sense. 
Radu

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1 hour ago, Radub said:


I strongly disagree. Zoukei Mura never cut off parts from the commmon runners. Take for example the 50 Kg bombs on the Hs 129. The B-1 and B-2 often carried one 50 Kg bomb under each wing while armed with either cannon. In the kit that ZM released in 2019 the 50 Kg bombs are included on the common runner that also includes the four-bomb rack used primarily by the Romanians and not relevant to the B-2 in the box.  If ZM were to be “mean” as implied by your post they would have cut off the four-bomb rack and bombs. But they did not. The existing kit also includes on the common runner the engine cowls for the B-1. If they were “mean” as implied by your post they would have cut off the cowls. But they did not. They are not removing any parts from common runners. Whatever other companies do is their business. 
The decision not to issue a Hs 129 kit with two separate runners for two separate cannons is not a commercial decision, it is a common sense decision. You only need one cannon, so whichever one you choose the other one automatically becomes waste plastic that will end up in a spares parts box or the rubbish bin. It just does not make sense. 
Radu

Please show me where I wrote or hinted ZM was 'mean'...:blink: Neither did I wrote that ZM removed anything from sprues. My comment was as generic as yours.

 

I simply wrote this was a business decision and you just confirmed it!

 

If that was just common sense we should conclude at least 75% of the other plastic kit manufacturers have no common sense! To me they just took other business decisions and I thanks them for that as without that we would not have 'spare parts boxes'!

 

It looks your personal and fruitful relationship with them results in a discussion that is more emotional than factual. I have no problem understanding that but this leads to a moot point. Probably better to agree we disagree and stop here.

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The current release of the Hs129 is excellent, you get two versions to build if you look through the parts properly which I did and ended up building a Romanian B-2 with the help of decals from another kit.

 

20210307-160138.jpg

 

20210307-155526.jpg

 

Having built one I have to say it's a lovely kit, as fir ZM being stingy I don't really think so, however I do feel that the original boxing was a major marketing f#@k up with a single marking option only. Forgive me if I am wrong but you don't see much if any AM for ZM kits and tying themselves down to one scheme was very poor indeed. 

 

Regards. Andy 

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8 hours ago, thierry laurent said:

Please show me where I wrote or hinted ZM was 'mean'...:blink: Neither did I wrote that ZM removed anything from sprues. My comment was as generic as yours.

 

I simply wrote this was a business decision and you just confirmed it!

 

If that was just common sense we should conclude at least 75% of the other plastic kit manufacturers have no common sense! To me they just took other business decisions and I thanks them for that as without that we would not have 'spare parts boxes'!

 

It looks your personal and fruitful relationship with them results in a discussion that is more emotional than factual. I have no problem understanding that but this leads to a moot point. Probably better to agree we disagree and stop here.

 

1 hour ago, monthebiff said:

The current release of the Hs129 is excellent, you get two versions to build if you look through the parts properly which I did and ended up building a Romanian B-2 with the help of decals from another kit.

 

20210307-160138.jpg

 

20210307-155526.jpg

 

Having built one I have to say it's a lovely kit, as fir ZM being stingy I don't really think so, however I do feel that the original boxing was a major marketing f#@k up with a single marking option only. Forgive me if I am wrong but you don't see much if any AM for ZM kits and tying themselves down to one scheme was very poor indeed. 

 

Regards. Andy 

 

I agree ... being "mean" or stingy was a VERY weird sort of takeaway given the discussion!! ... also a little harsh ...

 

I think its more like - curiosity as to the obvious (and it IS obvious!) about face in kit boxing decision making - is more along the lines of what is being discussed here.

 

It is abundantly clear from the original 'advertising' tiles, that the plan was to release a B-2 kit with 'options' inside the box ... and if it wasn't obvious at the time ... certainly the release of the 2 kits of the Ki.45 in line with the advertising tiles MAKE it obvious afterward.

 

I'm thinking that perhaps any single one (or combination) of cramped release timeframe, updated kit design, sprue part reorganisation and mould engineering might be a clue as to how or why it was changed.

 

Including more than one variant inside a box is just good, practical marketing ... one box design, one set of instructions (with options in the build), one decal sheet and marginally additional plastic ...

 

Rog :)

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/12/2022 at 3:21 AM, Paul2660 said:

Found the page I was referring to.  I read this as two kits were to be released.  First kit would have options 1,2,3 and 2nd would have option 4. 

 

Note the total parts at the top of each.  It very clearly states option B2, (you can build 1 of three different armament options).  B3 is the 75mm gun. 

 

Not trying to hurt ZM or anyone associated with them.  Just wanted to point this out.  This is from their website. SWS.  I feel it would have been much simpler to offer the MK-103 version as a external upgrade as really all that was needed was the MK-103, and cover, possibly a different gunsight, and decals.  All of this type of stuff has been offered by ZM for other kits in the past as optional accessories.  

 

Paul 

 

 

On 6/12/2022 at 4:39 AM, Dave Williams said:

???  That was the version that was already released.  The issue is that prior to the release of the kit, Z-M was saying the B-2 kit would cover three subvariants, instead of the one subvariant boxing the we ended up with.

 

On 6/12/2022 at 5:12 PM, thierry laurent said:

No, this has nothing to do with the sprues technical design. Even when all the optional parts are on a single sprue some manufacturers remove them thanks to sliding mold use or gates closure when workers do not remove them manually! This is typically a business decision!


Annnnnnd here’s the ZM amendment to the original release schedule!!!  … I found it earlier today posted years ago on my Facebook page for some reason …

 

3 versions to be released … 

 

* B-2 / R3 (RIII) - (Mk 101 or bombs)

* B-3 - (Bk 75)

* B-2 / R8 - (Mk 103)

 

AF0h3W5.jpg
 

Rog :)

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Glad you found this, it does confirm the changes from the original statements.  However for me it’s crazy to have to purchase 3 kits, to get all three versions. As the only difference between 2 is the MK 101 vs MK 103.  I would have preferred to see them just release the first kit with both versions.  Note the BF-109 G6 appears to have: bombs, 20mm gondolas included in the kit, even though they are not part of the Hartman build.  And in the Old Man blog, they clearly make a point of mentioning the extra parts.  

 

It also appears that the MK 103 version of the HS-129 will not be released for at least 6 to 8 more months?  The 75mm cannon version appears to be next. 

 

Paul 

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57 minutes ago, Paul2660 said:

Glad you found this, it does confirm the changes from the original statements.  However for me it’s crazy to have to purchase 3 kits, to get all three versions. As the only difference between 2 is the MK 101 vs MK 103.  I would have preferred to see them just release the first kit with both versions.  Note the BF-109 G6 appears to have: bombs, 20mm gondolas included in the kit, even though they are not part of the Hartman build.  And in the Old Man blog, they clearly make a point of mentioning the extra parts.  

 

It also appears that the MK 103 version of the HS-129 will not be released for at least 6 to 8 more months?  The 75mm cannon version appears to be next. 

 

Paul 

 

The Hartmann Bf 109 G will not contain the bombs or the under-wing gondolas, they are not relevant to the model. The parts photos shown in the Old Man's Blog are photos of the Bf 109 test shots and they cover a number of versions that will be issued in the future. I have the complete assembly manual for the Hartmann kit and the runners with the bombs and under-wing cannon gondolas are not included on the page listing all the runners. 

It makes absolutely no sense to include three different cannons in a Hs 129 kit and only parts to make one single model. By default you will be forced to use only one cannon and throw the other canons away. As I said above, there was some ambiguous wording in the original announcement and there was never any intention to issue a kit with two different types of cannon in the box. I was part of the team that designed these kits. 

Radu 

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