ICM Tiger Moth

[mozart]

A tentative start made....experiments!  I've long been an admirer of Kent Karlsen's work, in particular how he managed to produce such realistic ribbing and stitching on his biplanes so I picked his brains!!  He uses a riveting tool and thin masking tape; I was keen to try his technique but I also read about thin 1mm strips produced by Eduard:

 

 

I wondered if these could be used, running the riveting tool along the middle of each 1mm strip.  It works well enough but the rivets, or in this case, stitching, isn't standing out when the masking strip is taken off the backing and applied to the wing.  When I tried doing it from the "reverse" side I encountered two problems; firstly the backing paper is quite thick and shiny, so I had to apply a lot of pressure to get the rivets to "register", and in applying the pressure the steel rule ended to wander off the centre line.

 

So, Kent's method:  a steel rule is placed on the sticky side of thin masking tape so that just a little edge shows.  The riveter is run along the edge of the rule, the tape is taken off, turned over and the other edge cut....I now had stitches that stood slightly proud.  It's a bit fiddly, I had several tries to get the width of the finished tape to about 1mm, which I thought was acceptable but I think it's the way forward.

 

 

In the picture below, the third strip from the left is the Eduard tape and the fifth one my most successful effort to date, the others are a smidgeon too wide I think.

 

 

Kev restoring a Tiger Moth wing, each stitch on the tape is a complex knot!  This narrow tape then has a wider one glued over the top of it. 

 

 

Ready to fit:

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by mozart

[RLWP]

If you fancy going completely overboard, I have a book that describes all the necessary knots

 

Richard 

[mozart]

3 minutes ago, RLWP said:

If you fancy going completely overboard, I have a book that describes all the necessary knots

 

Richard 

Well I don't want to try to replicate them Richard, but I recall being amazed watching Kevin doing the knots on the wings, so I wouldn't mind seeing some diagrams of how they were done if you have them?

[geedubelyer]

You've made a start Max. 

 

I can see you're going to need a bit of patience to create all of those stitched rib tapes. What does the tape look like under paint? is it thin enough? 

 

I quite like the look of the unfinished wings in your photos above. The idea of creating a workshop diorama is quite appealing.

 

Looking forward to more.

 

Cheers.

[mozart]

You’re one jump ahead of me Guy! Next part of the experiment is to do a trial (on a Revell Tiger Moth) with primer and paint to see how it looks. 

[europapete]

Hi Max, Where is the Moth Shop?

[mozart]

6 hours ago, europapete said:

Hi Max, Where is the Moth Shop?

It’s Henstridge airfield Pete, 5 miles down the road from me. Kevin owns 5 restored Tiger Moths, Annabelle a Bucker Jungman and she’s working on a Jungmeister. 

[europapete]

Ah, kk. A freind is having his Tiger restored in England, will have to ask again where. He did say but I forget. Somewhere near Southampton I think, a Tiger Moth speciallist. 

[mozart]

Unfortunately I've not had much chance to get on with any modelling for a while, but I've used the interval to order a couple of extra bits for the Tiger Moth.  Firstly I wasn't really happy with the tape and rivet wheel attempt at rib stitching so I ordered this from Woody:

 

 

They look good, so I'll be trying them shortly.  And secondly:

 

 

 

the fuel tank from CMK, recently come into stock at Hannants. This is very detailed, but I think it might be wise to leave the fuel "gauge" etc off until later in the build because I can see those snapping off very easily if fitted too soon.

Edited December 16, 2021 by mozart

[europapete]

Hi Max! my Fury arrived today from Alec. Wonderful kit. Together with a second Gauntlet to convert to a Grebe. Regards, Pete

[mozart]

On 12/18/2021 at 12:21 AM, europapete said:

Hi Max! my Fury arrived today from Alec. Wonderful kit. Together with a second Gauntlet to convert to a Grebe. Regards, Pete

Excellent news Pete, check all the bits thoroughly though with the Fury!  Hmmm, Gauntlet to Grebe is an interesting proposition!

[mozart]

OK, update news with the Tiger Moth!  I started looking at the fuselage and what needs to be done.  Firstly, thoughts about the entry points for the elevator and rudder control lines.  ICM would have you drill these out:

 

 

so that you can do this:

 

 

Now I think this is fine for the elevator lines but not the rudder ones below the cockpit.  This is the real arrangement:

 

 

The lines attach to a control horn situated below a metal shield.

 

 

ICM have moulded a "shield":

 

 

which I've removed in favour of a more realistic arrangement.  The AIMS photo-etch includes the control horns and shields:

 

 

I'm not sure about the AIMS shields though being flat, I've bent them into an "L" shape but they're too prominent for me, so the likelihood is I'll be using either a short length of "L" shaped brass or plastic.

 

Your thoughts please on the wing ribbing.  This is my experiment so far:

 

 

and the real thing:

 

 

All comments about which looks best appreciated! 

[geedubelyer]

Hi Max, nice update. 

I suspect that the etched rudder control shields will be better using "L" shaped extrusion as you are planning. If I ever get around to building mine I may use a suitably bent sliver of wine bottle foil. 

 

Regarding the stitching, as it stands I think your version looks more realistic than the transfers. 

Your reference shots show them as being quite subtle, the transfers on your model are quite prominent. 

Also the transfers are beautifully uniform but the stitching on the actual airframe do appear to vary in prominence a little. 

I wonder what the transfer versions would look like under a strip of decal film?

You're definitely heading in the right direction though as both options improve the look of the kit parts. 

Good job. 

Cheers

[mozart]

Thanks for your thoughts Guy, they pretty much mirror my own in that sadly I think the Archer stitching looks too heavy as it stands, and applied to every rib on the whole model would look very over done. I might have a go at sanding lightly to see if that makes a difference…..the story’s not finished yet. 
Pics shortly but I have ended up making my own rudder control horns and shields from brass. 

[Pastor John]

Hi Max, great work! I am not at home to check but if memory serves the control cable plates were as I designed them - as on the photo I was using anyway - and there in is the problem - the small differences between so many surviving examples made knowing what to provide very difficult. Have a great Christmas, J