Border Model's Statement Regarding Lancaster Legal Issues

[Maxim61]

Whatever happens I'll bet that if Border  bring the kit to market but the importers runs scared due to legal threats from WNW liquidators and refuse to import, you'll just be able to buy it direct from China.  I'll happily contribute to buying two of them.

[frothingillbellows]

1 hour ago, LSP_Kevin said:

 

I think you'll find that in reality, Peter Jackson has had very little to do with any of this, personally. Control of his companies and business affairs has been ceded to the bean counters, and they're the ones who have called in the lawyers (and forced the closure of Wingnut Wings). PJ is really just a figurehead, who has had his...ahem...wings clipped.

 

Kev

That could be the case but the cease and desist letter clearly stated the lawyers represent Wingnut Wings and its principal Peter Jackson. It would cost a fortune to take distributors to court in many countries all over the world. There would be the need to engage specialist lawyers  in each country as well. Either this is just a bluff or someone has the financial clout to see it through. I doubt there is any money left in the company for the bean counters to dip into. 

[frothingillbellows]

1 hour ago, firefly7 said:

With such a low volume of kits expected to be sold, why can't Border just sell them direct to consumers themselves. skip the middlemen, after all wasn't this WNW method for half it's life. 

 

 

 

If 1 in a 1,000,000 Chinese bought a kit there would be only a handful left to leave the country. Not in any way likely but if demand is hyped up they will be thinly spread around the world. 

[Pup7309]

5 hours ago, firefly7 said:

With such a low volume of kits expected to be sold, why can't Border just sell them direct to consumers themselves. skip the middlemen, after all wasn't this WNW method for half it's life. 

 

 

 

Well as long as customs doesn’t care or pick it up

[Smokeyforgothispassword]

Even if all the relevant information was available I wouldn’t be able to offer an informed opinion about who diddling whom I just hope they sort it out so that all of us who want one of these magnificent kits get the chance to purchase 1 to build and 1 to take up a massive amount of room in the stash.

[Pup7309]

Possibilities 

1) This kit will be available after a period of time

2) It will only be available from China direct 

3) Both 1& 2

4) Border and WNW cut a deal

5) Border sell back to original company, PJ pays them off and releases it under WNW 2.0

Edited November 6, 2021 by Pup7309

[MikeMaben]

   All this for a plastic toy airplane.     

[Sabrejet]

10 hours ago, Lee White said:

 

 

IIRC,the Jeep element that got Tamiya in trouble was the trademarked 7-vertical slot grill, which only Jeeps can have.

 

...or kit cars, or vague replicas from nations who don't abide by trademarks...

[Tissue and Dope]

12 hours ago, Paramedic said:

So.. Kinda on topic - but how does it work when model companies make a model of an aircraft? I assumed that for example a P-51D of Tamiya or Eduard, which is endorsed - or licensed? By Boeing, the current "successor" of North American Aviation through merges and whatnot, actually okayed it, maybe even helped out and possibly got some kind of license money from it?

 

If that is how it works, do they have to seek that endorsement? Or is it a license you need (atleast to sell it in the US for example)?

 

 

It’s similar to this: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/magnifier-mag00019-ford-gt40-mk-ii--1297779

In 2008 Trumpeter released their 1/12th scale Ford GT40, https://www.scalemates.com/kits/trumpeter-05403-ford-gt40-mk-ii--122941

and then a couple of years ago a company called Magnifier produced the identical kit

but with NO mention of Ford which able to be sold at about half the price of the presumably licensed by Ford kit.

 

[LSP_Matt]

1 hour ago, MikeMaben said:

   All this for a plastic toy airplane.     

If it's actually true (?) that WnW never paid and ceased communicating with the mould manufacturer,  then the company that PJ's lawyer represents would seem to owe the mould company both money and some effort to communicate.

As a principle I understand someone might want to protect what they assert is their IP rights.  

 

Less so if its true that WnW ghosted the mould company they owed for production of ordered parts. Not paying, ceasing to communicate and even closing down the company, could would suggest to a reasonable person that any interests in the moulds had been forfeited and the entire project consigned to history.

 

I think this is a legal minefield across jurisdictions with very different laws, legal systems, routine practices and what sounds like a complicated history of events that would need to be played out in court via a chain of evidence.

And lastly, if we take on faith what's been said, and consider WnW is actually no more, what IP value is the lawyer trying to protect?  A cad model of a future project that may never see the light of day?

I can't understand why PJ's lawyer would be bothering other than its in their job description to hunt such things down.

I hope the project sees the light of day for all of those who invested their time, effort and money into its creation.

Matty 


 

[Radub]

Tooling costs for a mold of such size and complexity runs into hundreds of thousands. I think that the issue here is the transfer of the mold. The toolshop/seller was motivated to cover their losses but did not seek legal advice if they were entited to sell it. The buyer did not do their due dilligence and seek legal advice if they could purchase it. Say what you want about the role of lawyers in large purchases, but if these guys did not use lawyers before, they need them now. 

Radu 

 

[Confusionreigns178]

I would have thought the cost of bringing international law-suits against model-distributors could easily exceed the profits that Border Models would enjoy from producing the kits. Are the lawyers hoping that the threat of being sued was enough to prevent distributors from stocking the kit? An action like this might take several years to resolve. 

 

Chris.  

[Radub]

2 minutes ago, Confusionreigns178 said:

I would have thought the cost of bringing international law-suits against model-distributors could easily exceed the profits that Border Models would enjoy from producing the kits. Are the lawyers hoping that the threat of being sued was enough to prevent distributors from stocking the kit? An action like this might take several years to resolve. 

 

Chris.  

 

Why would WNW care about Border's profits? WNW are entitled to defend their investment. 

Radu 

[Panzerwomble]

Have to laugh a little reminds me of my own work experience ....

 

Back in 2005 , I bought a bunch of IM tools from China for use in the UK prosthetic industry . When our guys turned up to factory inspect and collect the tooling , there were two sets on the floor . 

 

"But xxxxx have only paid for one " says our guys 

"Yes the second set is ours , we paid for it " said the toolmaker , no doubt with someone already lined up to buy them 

"yes but the design is ours , you can't have a second set" 

 

The attitude back was one of " and what will xxxxx be able to do about it ...." so they left with the one set they had paid for  , and counterfeits were on the Asian market before we have launched in Europe. 

 

True story, and is the big downfall of dealing with countries that don't respect copyright , Taiwan is the same. Would I recommend a large consumer brand buying cheap tooling from China .....no unless they were happy to have fakes on Alibaba shortly afterwards .

 

Companies going into bankruptcy is a harder one , I don't even know if WNW exists as a company anymore, or has been sold on . If it were liquidated and doesn't they are  going to have a hard time fighting much in the courts and what they win will belong to their creditors. 

 

I read there has been a bit of backlash about Peter Jackson in NZ , namely "a bit too big for his boots", weighing in to influence  Mayoral elections to suit his own agenda . 

[Paramedic]

11 hours ago, Pup7309 said:

Good points. Maybe only Chinese people will be able to build them if Border loose their international legal battle. The molds will be staying in China no matter what I imagine 

 

Pretty sure there will be channels for it from China directly..

 

3 hours ago, MikeMaben said:

   All this for a plastic toy airplane.     

 

"Toy"??

 

 

To bad if PJ became an arsehole.. Seemed like a nice guy back in the day, not unlike most modelling dudes..