Border Model's Statement Regarding Lancaster Legal Issues

[Paramedic]

23 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:

Can you do that?  Their web page doesn’t seem to have any direct buy option that I can see.

 

Hopefully they sort that soon..

[Radub]

1 hour ago, VMA131Marine said:

What investment? They didn’t pay for the molds. They still have their CAD designs so they can easily send them to another mold shop to get another set of molds made … if only the company hadn’t been shut down. There is no violation of IP here; it’s a shakedown by PJ to get a share of the sales of the Lancaster kit.

I already explained what WNW invested into this three posts above your reply. Please read again. 

The workshop is in the wrong here not WNW. The workshop was supposed to issue the final inovice upon completion of the work. However, as Border explained in their post at the top of this thread, the workshop did not complete the work and sold the mold before they finished the work that they were contracted to do. Border explained in great detail that they had to finish the work.

So, there are two issues:

1 - The workshop broke the contractual agreement by not finishing the work and selling the mold to a third party without the permission of the second party to the contract

2 - Since the workshop never sent the final invoice, could not possibly send the final invoice because they did not finish the work, they cannot honestly claim that they were "not paid."

Radu 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Radub

[Mark P]

With all this legal stuff serving as a backdrop, I wonder if customs has the authority to prevent the import as a private sale 

 

Mark Proulx

Edited November 6, 2021 by Mark P
Text

[lawman56]

9 minutes ago, Mark P said:

With all this going on and since some suggesting buying direct, I wonder if a countries customs can prohibit this purchase from entering the country?

 

Mark Proulx

Apparently we here in the US have that handled. By the time any of the cargo ships get to port, the legalities should be complete 

[DrewH]

2 hours ago, VMA131Marine said:

Exactly! But what single distributor would want to take that on as a test case? 

None, but that isn't the real issue. In my opinion, WNW legal is buying time to take the mold manufacturer to court in an attempt to deem the sale wrongful to stop Border. The case is really between the mold manufacturer and WNW. Border, distributors and modellers are caught in the midst. IMO, WNW can't do anything to Border or a distributor without a court ruling in their favour of wrongful sale of the molds. 

 

3 hours ago, Radub said:

 

WNW is not "defunct". It is still registered as a going concern with the NZ companies register, which anyone can check for free via the internet. The legal action that makes the subject of this thread was taken on behalf of WNW, which in itself is further proof that WNW is not "defunct." 

This whole "WNW is dead" speculation that haunts the internet may be the main reason why the tool shop took the fateful decision to sell the mold instead of trying to use other methods to get their final payment. 

Radu

 

Never said they were - said CAD files are WNW IP.  It's a different argument for a defunct company to retain IP.  Puts WNW in a bad spot claiming IP to me, shows they didn't cease being a company as noted, which goes back to possibly defaulting on the contract with the mold manufacturer. it's a vicious circle to claim one or the other. 

 

What's that old adage - possession is 9/10 of the law. 

[DrewH]

1 hour ago, Radub said:

I already explained what WNW invested into this three posts above your reply. Please read again. 

The workshop is in the wrong here not WNW. The workshop was supposed to issue the final inovice upon completion of the work. However, as Border explained in their post at the top of this thread, the workshop did not complete the work and sold the mold before they finished the work that they were contracted to do. Border explained in great detail that they had to finish the work.

So, there are two issues:

1 - The workshop broke the contractual agreement by not finishing the work and selling the mold to a third party without the permission of the second party to the contract

2 - Since the workshop never sent the final invoice, could not possibly send the final invoice because they did not finish the work, they cannot honestly claim that they were "not paid."

Radu 

Interesting - you have direct inside knowledge? If I did I sure wouldn't post it. 

[Radub]

1 minute ago, DrewH said:

Interesting - you have direct inside knowledge? If I did I sure wouldn't post it. 

 

Read Border's statement at the top of ths thread. They explain how they acquired the molds, unifinished, from the tool shop. 

Radu

[Tony T]

If I were a Chinese tooling & moulding company I would now be very hesitant about dealing with foreigners. Artists and designers working under contract and paid on delivery excepted. 

I don't see any good coming out of this.

 

Even madder at the moment, I'm wondering how many 1/72 Xuelong icebreakers Trumpeter are going to sell In 2022-23. Unless the scale's a typo the model will be 1ft wide and over 7ft long! 

 

Can we just go back to sensible subjects in an appropriate scale please?

 

Tony 

 

 

 

 

[Dave Williams]

1 hour ago, Radub said:

I already explained what WNW invested into this three posts above your reply. Please read again. 

The workshop is in the wrong here not WNW. The workshop was supposed to issue the final inovice upon completion of the work. However, as Border explained in their post at the top of this thread, the workshop did not complete the work and sold the mold before they finished the work that they were contracted to do. Border explained in great detail that they had to finish the work.

So, there are two issues:

1 - The workshop broke the contractual agreement by not finishing the work and selling the mold to a third party without the permission of the second party to the contract

2 - Since the workshop never sent the final invoice, could not possibly send the final invoice because they did not finish the work, they cannot honestly claim that they were "not paid."

Radu 

The statement for Border also says that the shop who did the molds did not receive any payment for their work.  How do you know there were not progress payments due at various stages of the mold making process and that WNW never made those payments?  The Border statement certainly implies that was the case.  How do you know that there also weren’t provisions in the contract for penalties if payments were not made?  It seems you are making definitive statements with no more knowledge on what the specific contract actually says than anyone else in this thread.

[eoyguy]

Peter Jackson has become Smaug. He's sitting on his pile of riches, but is still trying to keep little people from getting his Arkenstone...er...Lancaster.

 

My preciousssssss...

[Lee White]

Radu may very well be right, the molds may have been in an incomplete state when WnW closed down. If I, as the machine shop owner, heard about this, u would have stopped work too until everybody was on the same page. Seeing as how PJ never responded to any if the attempt to reach him and resolve this, I think it only natural that the molds were considered abandoned and flogged to Border. Maybe the mold maker could come up with a (huge) storage fee number,make PJ think twice about pursuing  this.

[Radub]

12 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:

The statement for Border also says that the shop who did the molds did not receive any payment for their work.  How do you know there were not progress payments due at various stages of the mold making process and that WNW never made those payments?  The Border statement certainly implies that was the case.  How do you know that there also weren’t provisions in the contract for penalties if payments were not made?  It seems you are making definitive statements with no more knowledge on what the specific contract actually says than anyone else in this thread.

 

There is not a single chance that the Lancaster got to the test shot stage without a single payment rom WNW. I know the industry, I know the costs involved. No single workshop in the whole wide world would even contemplate starting the work on a tooling without an advance payment. 

Radu 

[Paramedic]

53 minutes ago, eoyguy said:

Peter Jackson has become Smaug. He's sitting on his pile of riches, but is still trying to keep little people from getting his Arkenstone...er...Lancaster.

 

My preciousssssss...

 

Kinda ironic and sad if that is the case.. Was about to say "He wanted a Lanc - became a wanc(k)"

[monthebiff]

57 minutes ago, Radub said:

 

There is not a single chance that the Lancaster got to the test shot stage without a single payment rom WNW. I know the industry, I know the costs involved. No single workshop in the whole wide world would even contemplate starting the work on a tooling without an advance payment. 

Radu 

Radu, I agree, you know the industry and how it works but you don't know WnW payment terms with their supplier do you? Or do you? So therefore quite a lot of work could well have been done which equalls tens of thousands of dollars of work done in advance of payment which never materialised? Happens all the time in business doesn't it, a customer keeps placing orders and have paid their invoices before but but then things start to go wrong and suppliers not getting paid until they are screaming and putting accounts on hold. Maybe WnW were spreading their mold tool work around quite heavily for this very reason. Maybe I'm wrong but look at the Dr.I?

 

Regards. Andy 

[vince14]

2 hours ago, Dave Williams said:

It seems you are making definitive statements with no more knowledge on what the specific contract actually says than anyone else

That, my friend, is par for the course.