Border Model's Statement Regarding Lancaster Legal Issues

[cbk57]

50 minutes ago, Kagemusha said:

OK, can we please leave the personal out of the discussion, otherwise the thread's going to have to go into a holding position.

As members we need to respect each other and not make personal insults, but can we please come up with and share personal insults about PJ?

 

A few minutes ago I messaged Border models on Facebook that they should rename the kit the 1/32 FUPJ MKI and drop ship them to the u.s. in brown boxes in bulk then have someone go around and sell them out of the back of a truck at hobby shows.

Edited November 5, 2021 by cbk57

[VMA131Marine]

One thing that nobody has mentioned, while arguing ad infinitum about IP rights, is the legal strategy at play here. Plain and simple Sir PJ wants a piece of that Border Models Lancaster action; he wants Border to negotiate for the rights to produce the kit in exchange for a share of the profits. Lest you think that this is too small an amount to be trifled with, I’ll remind you that Donald Trump once signed and cashed a check for less than a dollar sent a a prank by a journalist to see who among wealthy people would cash checks that small. In this instance were probably talking an ask of US$100,000 or more. Why else would he wait until now to issue the cease and desist.

Edited November 6, 2021 by VMA131Marine

[adameliclem]

37 minutes ago, D.B. Andrus said:

 

A clapped out Merlin....?

Damn, you’re absolutely right. He’d be perfect as the wizard who played the field and caught the clap. 
 

On a more serious note, and speaking as a former high-end residential painting contractor, few things are more offensive and infuriating to a contractor than being stiffed by a multi-millionaire. The only thing worse than that is when the multi-millionaire threatens legal action against contractors who try to get what they’re contractually entitled to.
 

The last time that happened to us, we took out a lien on the *******’s ocean-front house. Felt good.

 

Adam

 

 

[Brown Baron]

5 hours ago, RadBaron said:

"Everyone knows that military models are not copyrighted"

 

This statement is a pretty clear indication of the mindset at play.

And it is completely incorrect. 

 

 

This.

 For better or worse, things are done very differently in China. 

WnW lawyers mightn't be able to stop border from producing kits, but they might be able to scare re-sellers from stocking the kit.

 

Every bit of information about WnWs internal dealings has been second hand, they know how to be tight-lipped, so running to Border Models defence, based only on what they have to say, is forgetting that there are 3 sides to every story.

I read Border's comment about the intellectual property of the Lancaster design not being owned by WNW due to that IP actually being owned by the Avro company 

[RLWP]

4 hours ago, BiggTim said:

I don't even want one of these kits, but I am curious to see how this turns out.

 

Car crashes are always fascinating

 

I'm in 

 

Richard

[adameliclem]

11 minutes ago, RLWP said:

 

Car crashes are always fascinating

 

I'm in 

 

Richard

Car crash? This is the breach of the Mohne. 
 

That this would turn out to be Peter Jackson’s long-awaited Dambusters saga was not on my bingo card.
 

 

 

[Ryan]

4 hours ago, Kagemusha said:

 

I wonder which part Tom Cruise would play..?

 

Dildo Baggins.

[Violator1991]

The "real" IP of an aircraft belongs to an aircraft manufacturer of course. No company other than that may claim rights for that, regarding the design of the airplane.

When it comes to its model, no model manufacturer can claim ownership on the design, which would be stupid of course..

 

But downsizing an aircraft to a scale, creating a "model", designing a part breakdown, designing its moulds to produce it, developing assembly methods is purely subject to intellectual property rights.

 

How this will end between Border and PJ totally depends on the mould fabricator's contract with PJ. If they are professional enough to have such articles in the contract which enables them to confiscate the mould in case no payment is made... then PJ must fire his lawyers in no minute.

 

On the other hand why a multimillionare like PJ does not pay, say 1 million dollars, for this project of passsion needs explanation of course.

 

 

 

[LSP_K2]

I have to say, this has been the best read I've had here in months. I really have no opinion one way or another about the legal challenges, but I hope those that want the kit can eventually get them, and at a reasonable cost.

[Out2gtcha]

I'm pretty much in Timm and K2s corner here, I really have no want or desire for the kit, but the read itself and the surrounding dust up is fascinating. 

[Paramedic]

So.. Kinda on topic - but how does it work when model companies make a model of an aircraft? I assumed that for example a P-51D of Tamiya or Eduard, which is endorsed - or licensed? By Boeing, the current "successor" of North American Aviation through merges and whatnot, actually okayed it, maybe even helped out and possibly got some kind of license money from it?

 

If that is how it works, do they have to seek that endorsement? Or is it a license you need (atleast to sell it in the US for example)?

 

I have heard, but I am not sure of how correct, that SAAB for example, seems quite nice about it and helps out - for free. (For example when the game War thunder made some of their aircraft, they okayed it and did not demand any payment - but that is what I have heard..)

 

Maybe different for digital "models" in a computer game and a plastic kit too?

 

Even through my weird "English", I think you understand what I am asking?

[LSP_K2]

5 minutes ago, Paramedic said:

So.. Kinda on topic - but how does it work when model companies make a model of an aircraft? I assumed that for example a P-51D of Tamiya or Eduard, which is endorsed - or licensed? By Boeing, the current "successor" of North American Aviation through merges and whatnot, actually okayed it, maybe even helped out and possibly got some kind of license money from it?

 

If that is how it works, do they have to seek that endorsement? Or is it a license you need (atleast to sell it in the US for example)?

 

I have heard, but I am not sure of how correct, that SAAB for example, seems quite nice about it and helps out - for free. (For example when the game War thunder made some of their aircraft, they okayed it and did not demand any payment - but that is what I have heard..)

 

Maybe different for digital "models" in a computer game and a plastic kit too?

 

Even through my weird "English", I think you understand what I am asking?

 

I know that in at least one case, Hasegawa had several Boeing airliner kits in production that they'd never got licensing permission for. The Hasegawa solution was rather simple, if not somewhat comical; they just started issuing the exact same kits, but with the Boeing name blacked out on the boxes.

[eoyguy]

Regardless of who is telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, its pretty damn petty on PJ's part to do this knowing damn well his company is now defunct and won't be producing the kit, and he's likely to make more in 5 minutes from royalties from his movies than he will ever get from any piece of this action. Pettiness is a bad look for anyone, but especially so when you are a millionaire many, many times over, using your money/influence/celebrity to squash the little guy, and have spent many times any amount he may get from this on projects some might consider "indulgent".

 

As an aside, military vehicles can be copyrighted. When Tamiya first came out with a new Jeep in 1/35, they had some issues with Chrysler who own the Jeep brand. I believe they ended up coming to an agreement with Chrysler, and the Jeep name on the box has a Registered copyright symbol showing that they have that permission to use the name.

Edited November 5, 2021 by eoyguy

[Kenneth]

Depends on what has been registered as a trademark/design. Is it the object/shape, or are we only talking about a name and a logo? Ferrari had protected the 250 GTO but somebody contested it, and its scope of protection was reduced in Europe to model/toy cars only, due to long-term non-use for „real“ cars. But again: Protection has had to have been actively sought and granted, and whoever has whatever rights has to litigate themselves, nobody will do it for them.

[Landslide01]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this case, legal strategy is what will determine how it works out. Here is one possible scenario: WNW lost the moulds but they still own copyright. If they can prove their case against Border in any court, they can move against worldwide wholesalers and resellers too, as the product is not rightly theirs to sell. Any importer or reseller taking legal advice after threat of action will be advised to back down. It is not an indemnifiable or insurable risk. Therefore the route to market may be closed regardless of whether WNW succeed in enforcing a ruling against Border in China.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Landslide01
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