DB 603N Engine

[curiouslysophie]

I am going to be working on a bit of a Luft ‘46 version of the Do-335 and wanted to work in some later engines, preferably the 603N with the 2 stage supercharger. I am just wondering if any photos exist of these engines (or if they were built at all?). What external differences would they have from the 603Es?

 

Cheers,

Sophie

[dodgem37]

 

 

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler-Benz_DB_603

 

Sincerely,

Mark

[curiouslysophie]

Thank you Mark for the photos, but I believe these are all the 603E or earlier variants? I’m hoping the collective wisdom here can help with finding some information/pics/drawings of the 603N, which was upgraded with a twin stage supercharger and I believe improved piston shafts to have a higher manifold pressure. I’m not sure if any of these engines even existed in the end, and It maybe be a case of artistic license.

[phasephantomphixer]

Although I do not have info. on the DB 603N for you, I can say the big benefit of any Luft. '46 build is using artistic license.

One adaptation well executed in 1/48 scale on Tamiya 335 I saw was counter-rotating props. I would think a good way to

include dual charger would be slight bulge with a larger Ta-152 oval intake. Figure they would've addressed the rear engine

cooling issue with larger radiator intake by then as well. Surely a fun project. HTH

[curiouslysophie]

8 hours ago, phasephantomphixer said:

Although I do not have info. on the DB 603N for you, I can say the big benefit of any Luft. '46 build is using artistic license.

One adaptation well executed in 1/48 scale on Tamiya 335 I saw was counter-rotating props. I would think a good way to

include dual charger would be slight bulge with a larger Ta-152 oval intake. Figure they would've addressed the rear engine

cooling issue with larger radiator intake by then as well. Surely a fun project. HTH

 

The artistic license is part of the reason I want to go for a Luft ‘46 build. I like to build ‘historically plausible’ models in general. I have always quite liked the Do-335 as well, it has an interesting shape. I have the Zoukei Mura kit, and have gotten some parts from the HKM version to modify it to a B-2 or B-3 version. I want to do a heavy fighter-bomber variant that uses high speed to hit its target.

On the subject of the engine, I have found some limited information on the later two stage supercharger versions and it is a very bulky arrangement, I’m not sure it would fit in the 335’s nose section.

I am looking at mods to make the rear engine cooling look improved. I might possibly expand the cooling intake. I feel a lot of the modifications might be interior ones?

[dodgem37]

Apologies, Sofie.  Senior moment.

 

Sincerely,

Mark

[LSP_Mike]

Are piston shafts the same as connecting rods? Not sure how that would affect the exterior appearance of the engine in general.

[europapete]

Mike, by making the con-rods larger/ beefier, then the small end wrist pin ( gudgeon pin) diameter would need to be enlarged, making larger pistons neccessary. At the crankshaft end the rod journal would need to be wider, and have a larger crank journal diameter,  making the crankshaft longer and heavier. Resulting in a larger engine block. It is a very careful balance between cylinder pressure/force and the structural integrity of the moving componants so things don't break under max pressure. Aircraft engines are designed differently to car engines due to weight concerns. Car engines are usually overbuilt as weight is not that important, whereas an aircraft engine is kept as light as possible, so there is not much room structurally for increases in performance without internal changes.  Regards, Pete in RI

[curiouslysophie]

1 hour ago, LSP_Mike said:

Are piston shafts the same as connecting rods? Not sure how that would affect the exterior appearance of the engine in general.

 

I was meaning the actual shaft the piston moves up and down in. I believe they were trying to improve it to withstand a higher pressure as @europapete said. The second stage to the supercharger would add improved higher altitude performance too, which would be fine for me as my variant will be more of a lower level fighter bomber. 

I may do some artistic license to the engines and make them look ‘uprated’. I am also working on an idea for an improved cooling solution for the rear engine.

I want it to look like a machine that was improved based on combat reports.

[chrish]

My attempt at clearing things up (usually fails) the pistons shafts are generally referred to as the engine cylinders (like a 4/6/8 cylinder engine will have 4/6/8 cylinders with one piston per cylinder)

it (the cylinder) can be made to handle higher pressure with a small amount of machining to “oversize” the cylinder and press in a steel or steel alloy insert. It is possible to even change the cylinder displacement by over sizing and removing the cast in cylinders and installing “wet sleeves”….long story short, you can increase or decrease the engine displacement with no noticeable external difference from one engine to another.
piston wrist pins and crank (pin) throws can also be made (slightly) larger with increased/ decreased strength with no real visible external changes to the engine.  

Edited October 17, 2021 by chrish
Typo

[curiouslysophie]

19 minutes ago, chrish said:

My attempt at clearing things up (usually fails) the pistons shafts are generally referred to as the engine cylinders (like a 4/6/8 cylinder engine will have 4/6/8 cylinders with one piston per cylinder)

it (the cylinder) can be made to handle higher pressure with a small amount of machining to “oversize” the cylinder and press in a steel or steel alloy insert. It is possible to even change the cylinder displacement by over sizing and removing the cast in cylinders and installing “wet sleeves”….long story short, you can increase or decrease the engine displacement with no noticeable external difference from one engine to another.
piston wrist pins and crank (pin) throws can also be made (slightly) larger with increased/ decreased strength with no real visible external changes to the engine.  

 

Thank you! Couldn’t remember the correct name for them. I think I am going to go that route and using some parts from the spares box I’ll alter the engine to look slightly different. I’m working on a way to have the engine panels removable with magnets like the Tamiya kits.

[Out2gtcha]

I made up a plausible explanation for the cooling on my What-if Do-335. 

I applied cooling ducting where normally the extra fuel tank would have been, routed to modified external cooling scoops for the rear engine. 

 

 

[curiouslysophie]

41 minutes ago, Out2gtcha said:

I made up a plausible explanation for the cooling on my What-if Do-335. 

I applied cooling ducting where normally the extra fuel tank would have been, routed to modified external cooling scoops for the rear engine. 

 

 

Your build is one of the major inspirations for mine! I loved reading it, and your work is sublime. I like the solution you came up with, very elegant! I want to keep the main fuel tank as I’ll be shortening the wing ones to fit the MK 103’s. I was scooting around my various spares and have found a lower air scoop from the Tamiya Spit I might mount above or to the side of the rear engine as a secondary radiator system I think. I’ll play around with it to make it look good. I also have left overs from the Mossie I might look at mounting on the sides if it looks better.

 

I love the idea of the Do 335 in a camo it wasn’t meant for. I think I’m going to go for a late war RLM 81/82 scheme, possibly with the yellower 76 underneath, a bit of the D-9 vibe to it.

 

Just got to get my Corsair finished first!

[europapete]

Adding a larger air intake for the engines like PPP said earlier with the TA152 style and larger diameter exhaust pipes would really help the beefier look. 

[curiouslysophie]

44 minutes ago, europapete said:

Adding a larger air intake for the engines like PPP said earlier with the TA152 style and larger diameter exhaust pipes would really help the beefier look. 

 

I think I’m going to follow a similar route to @Out2gtcha with regard to the cooling intake for the rear engine’s radiator. I will look for some larger air scoops for the supercharger though. I think the quick boost Dora scoops might do the trick. As far as I know, no-one does the Ta-152 ones as a part.